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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#501

Post by Tangaroa »

flyinRyan wrote: post #473
ars wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the first few weeks after, there was a growing feeling that maybe this was finally the time that the US would straighten out and take a deep and serious look at our own actions and policies. I agree we did overreact, but this sentence is just nonsense. Are you really implying that our actions and policies are what caused muslims to hate us, and that therefor we should change them???????????

Yes, obviously. What did you imagine it was? Something mind-numbingly ignorant like "they hate us for our freedoms"?

Here is a free clue for you: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1253796

And some notes on his influence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutbism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27alim_fi_al-Tariq

They do indeed "hate us for our freedoms" and the mind-numbingly ignorant position is to deny it.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#502

Post by jasonlingx »

yen223 wrote: post #432
jasonlingx wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Minnesota, it is against the law to hang male and female underwear together on the same washing line. So what?

So both are ridiculous laws that have no place in modern society. That said, I thought Singapore has repealed the chewing-gum ban already.

My point was more that you cannot judge a country based on 1 law.

And also, what's the big deal of banning chewing gum? :)

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#503

Post by chrischen »

comicjk wrote: post #484
chrischen wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constitutional democracy only works if the whole population agrees to the moral and practical superiority of freedom of choice and equality of opportunity. And then it is allowed to function. It doesn't happen naturally without conscious human intervention. Naturally, if society was a crude free-for-all, we'd have things that resemble Somalia, or the Mexican drug cartels, or North Korea (along with things like The Un…

I agree that force is real and that legal equality is an ideal - this is the best argument I know of for a broad interpretation of the right to bear arms. But the fact that democracy is not a state of nature is hardly an argument against it. "The most workable system we have" is all it usually claims to be. Incidentally, why would you think that a universal moral ideal would be something that happens by itself? Isn't…

I think you didn't fully understand my argument. I never argued, in my reply to you or others, that democracy is undesirable.

> Incidentally, why would you think that a universal moral ideal would be something that happens by itself? Isn't it abundantly clear that humans never fulfil any of their ideals?

Legal equality isn't an ideal. It's not something we strive for because we already have it. A universal moral has to be something that happens automatically because otherwise (like democracy) it can only happen with human intervention. And if it requires human intervention, it is no longer universal. It is an artificial construct of man. And like all things men create, it's subjective and designed to serve the specific goals of its creator. A system like a free-for-all survival of the fittest is universal because it was not created by man to serve a purpose—it just is. Therefore it is universal because everything in the universe abides by it, whereas democracy is only abided by those who subscribe to it voluntarily.

Freedom is not free. Democracy is not free and it requires upkeep. Basically those who have power have used it to provide equal power to those under its jurisdiction. But it is made possible by the more universal law of power, and without the benevolent power holders we wouldn't have a free equal (under the law) society in the West.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#504

Post by doodyhead »

enraged_camel wrote: post #255
api wrote: post #158

"These people are my friends. They are my students, my relatives. They have no «hidden agenda» as the state likes to say. Their agenda is out there. It is very clear. The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its…

Wow. I am speechless. As someone who was born and raised in Turkey, and visited Singapore for long periods of time, let me say very clearly: you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Turkey and Singapore are two completely different worlds, with different histories, cultures, and geopolitical situations, and are not related in any shape or form. There may be a few surface-level parallels, but that's wher…

For me the greatest truth in this comment lies in the necessity to live in a place to truly understand it. Living in a new and entirely different country challenges your prejudices and preconceptions.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#505

Post by antihero »

claudius wrote: post #8
antihero wrote: post #4

This is disgusting, the "right" to profit/property is the least important thing, it should never trump people's well-being or the environment.

Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall. People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. This is a general problem I have with such active counter-protests, be they to stop a station from bei…

Except democracy is often false, and essentially a duopoly. Take here in the UK for example - there are two main parties, Labour and Conservative, which are varying degrees of right wing neoliberal. I don't doubt either of them would have supported this project because councils are full of careerists who owe favours. We can try to elect a "better" party (we tried with Lib Dems) but that goes tits-up, and we could start a much better left wing party (Green Party), but it's insanely hard to get any real power due to a variety of factors such as the media, ingrained ideas, gerrymandering, etc.

So true democracy is a bunch of people who stand up for their community, or at least that is far less flawed or corrupt than the system as it stands.

As for the right wing idiot thing - I disagree. I love the place I live in, if some arseholes come along and threaten, intimidate people here, then of course I think it just to counter-protest, vastly outnumber them, and make it clear that they are not welcome.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#506

Post by [deleted] »

api wrote: post #158

"These people are my friends. They are my students, my relatives. They have no «hidden agenda» as the state likes to say. Their agenda is out there. It is very clear. The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its…

[deleted]

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#507

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #506
api wrote: post #158

"These people are my friends. They are my students, my relatives. They have no «hidden agenda» as the state likes to say. Their agenda is out there. It is very clear. The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#508

Post by hik13 »

This is ridiculous. These synthetic news making to top of HN. Let me wrap up the situation very shortly: You know Ingress? That alternate reality game, yes. Scribbles like this are alternate reality too, so they have tie-ins with reality. But unlike Ingress, they are so far off from reality and so illogical; they are neither compelling nor fun! BTW, I'm writing this from the peaceful Turkey :)

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#509

Post by hik13 »

shn wrote: post #477

This article is grossly misleading. Papers and televisions are showing what is going on, one can read from internet, and express his opinion. Turkey is a democracy with multi party system similar to France since 1946. Unfortunately the minority group who held the power in Turkey for decades lost their control of most of the government and state after years of corruption with 2002 elections. In 2001 Turkish economy ex…

This wraps up the 'real' situation perfectly. Well put, sir. As a Turkish citizen, thank you for speaking the truth!

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#510

Post by [deleted] »

shn wrote: post #477

This article is grossly misleading. Papers and televisions are showing what is going on, one can read from internet, and express his opinion. Turkey is a democracy with multi party system similar to France since 1946. Unfortunately the minority group who held the power in Turkey for decades lost their control of most of the government and state after years of corruption with 2002 elections. In 2001 Turkish economy ex…

[deleted]
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