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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#81

Post by pointyhats »

HaloZero wrote: post #13
pointyhats wrote: post #4

They should do this in the UK. From observing the locals, the maternity grant (until yanked by the government) was used to buy designer gear for the mother, cigarettes and some expensive fashionable buggy for the baby (usually topped up by the baby's grandparents). Unfortunately essential stuff was forgotten. This solves those problems.

They also had a maternity grant though the box was just opted in 95% of the time though

That is because the 140 EUR grant is of significantly less value, which is absolutely wonderful motivation to do things properly.

I applaud what they do in Finland.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#82

Post by vidarh »

pointyhats wrote: post #77
vidarh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I treat all people as classless. What a convenient fantasy. > The problem is not specific to one traditional "class". Except it is, because it is only a problem by the implication that signs of wealth means that insufficient money must have been used on what is needed for the infant

Firstly it's not a fantasy unless you make it one. As someone brought up on a shoestring budget in one of the worst bits of London, I can assure you that in the real world, class is entirely irrelevant and ethics and morals are. There are people earning a quarter of what I do and three times what I do living either side of me and we're all on the same page, have the same ideals, hopes and goals. There are no classes…

> I can assure you that in the real world, class is entirely irrelevant and ethics and morals are.

I believe you in your claim that ethics and morals are independent of class. But that is entirely irrelevant to the argument over the existence of classes.

> There are no classes other than in the media.

So everyone have the same economic means and same influence over their life? The owner of a factory and the worker of a factory's interests are directly aligned with each others?

> To observe both signs of wealth and signs of poverty at the same time has certain obvious implications.

I'm not quite so sure the implications are as obvious as what you claim. But that is in any case irrelevant, as individual observations are still just that.

> It's all logic.

Logic does not substitute for missing data.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#83

Post by cafard »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #70

The first thing that I noticed about the box is that all the baby clothes are sex-neutral. Here in North America it's almost impossible to find baby clothes that don't immediately scream "I'm a boy" or "I'm a girl".

It has been a long time since I purchased any, and I notice only so many, but what exactly is macho or feminine about a white onesie?

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#84

Post by RyanMcGreal »

belorn wrote: post #73
jan_g wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. Many European countries have similar arrangements. Personally, I think all this is money well spent by the governments as it gives nice financial boost to young parents and a sense that someone/something cares about them and their baby.

> It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. While its technically true, its really misrepresent it. Every time i hear that argument it sounds like a kid holding one part of a singular share of Microsoft stock, proclaiming to the world that he has now "funded Microsoft!" because of his $10 investment. Sure, in societies with lower tax, the state would be less likely to be funding a b…

Not only that, but I expect the neonatal benefits amount to a public good - an expenditure of public money that saves more than it costs by improving outcomes and reducing the need for expensive interventions.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#85

Post by codeulike »

Nursie wrote: post #54
jszlasa wrote: post #28

A start up (or Google) ought to give a similar kind of thing to their employees on their first day. At minimum it would get marketing buzz.

?? "Hey Bob, glad you could join the team! Here's a big cardboard box to sleep in, it should fit under your desk nicely. You'll find a couple of onesies in there, some shampoo and shower gel, toothbrush, toothpaste etc. You'll never need to leave the office again!" "Oh, and don't worry about that 'I'm sleeping in a coffin' feeling, it goes away after a couple of weeks"

That convinces me its a good idea

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#86

Post by cafard »

lysium wrote: post #63

Funnily enough, in Germany parents are advised to not let their newborns sleep in somewhere with all four sides closed (as is the case in this box). The alleged reason is to reduce the risk of sudden infant death.

Fashions come and go in advice. Generations of American babies were put down to sleep on their sides, now the thinking is that they should be on their backs.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#87

Post by ProcessBlue »

belorn wrote: post #76
bryanlarsen wrote: post #70

The first thing that I noticed about the box is that all the baby clothes are sex-neutral. Here in North America it's almost impossible to find baby clothes that don't immediately scream "I'm a boy" or "I'm a girl".

To my understanding, parents in Finland don't normally know the biological sex of the child before birth. If the box is given before the actually birth, then it makes sense to make the colors gender neutral.

The option to know (during the second ultrasound exam) is there, we for example did know. Some people choose not to know and many more keep the gender a secret from others until the baby is actually born.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#88

Post by rlpb »

jan_g wrote: post #78
belorn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. While its technically true, its really misrepresent it. Every time i hear that argument it sounds like a kid holding one part of a singular share of Microsoft stock, proclaiming to the world that he has now "funded Microsoft!" because of his $10 investment. Sure, in societies with lower tax, the state would be less likely to be funding a b…

It's more than a baby box. I do not know how familiar you are with some European countries' social system, but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so), tax deductions for every child until a child is 18 years old, kindergarten 'bonuses', free health care for every child and similar. So this…

> And I am not arguing against it, just that in the end someone has to pay for it.

What if it turned out that the baby pays for it because the improved average upbringing allows the baby to earn more and consequently pay more tax in absolute terms, though not in percentage terms?

Would it be a cost to the taxpayer then?

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#89

Post by yummyfajitas »

jan_g wrote: post #78
belorn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. While its technically true, its really misrepresent it. Every time i hear that argument it sounds like a kid holding one part of a singular share of Microsoft stock, proclaiming to the world that he has now "funded Microsoft!" because of his $10 investment. Sure, in societies with lower tax, the state would be less likely to be funding a b…

It's more than a baby box. I do not know how familiar you are with some European countries' social system, but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so), tax deductions for every child until a child is 18 years old, kindergarten 'bonuses', free health care for every child and similar. So this…

... but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so)...

In the US we earn 30% more money than Finland (adjusted for cost of living, which is quite high in Finland), so we can just pay for these things with savings if we want to. Most of us choose not to, suggesting these benefits are worth less to us than money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#90

Post by silves89 »

alan_cx wrote: post #56
pointyhats wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything needs citation in the form of a survey or scientific paper. I doubt the results of it would be honest as the people who they would be surveying have an interest in lying about the things they have purchased with it. Some things are blatantly obvious if you peel your eyes occasionally and observe humanity.

No, but in the UK there is a wind of judgemental tabloid nastiness in this area. Lies like this are made up daily, based on a very small minority, and huge chunks of people are tarred with the same brush. So, yeah, where is the research? Well, there is none, because apart from tabloid smearing lies, there is none. What is "obvious" is how nasty people are in the UK towards the poor working classes, who are under cons…

What I see when I stand outside ASDA are a bunch of normal people, and then some poor people who struggle to buy food and pay their rent. I don't see fancy clothes and designer pushchairs, I see old tracksuits and second-hand pushchairs, I see people who don't have jobs and feel bad about themselves.

Demand for food-banks in the UK has soared. But if only they didn't spend it on fags and wide-screen TVs they'd be able to eat.

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