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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#51

Post by ivix »

ProcessBlue wrote: post #33

Lovely article. However, I must say that the box is only the tip of the iceberg. It's been almost four years since we went through the gauntlet so my memory may be a bit fuzzy but if I remember correctly the FREE tier of forming babby in Finland includes: - Initially monthly (increaing to weekly) pre-natal checkups that include bloodwork, metabolism tests, ultrasounds and any treatments necessary to ensure the baby's…

Interesting that the health system in Finland has the concept of paid 'luxury' options. In the UK NHS that would be considered anathema.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#52

Post by Nursie »

ivix wrote: post #51
ProcessBlue wrote: post #33

Lovely article. However, I must say that the box is only the tip of the iceberg. It's been almost four years since we went through the gauntlet so my memory may be a bit fuzzy but if I remember correctly the FREE tier of forming babby in Finland includes: - Initially monthly (increaing to weekly) pre-natal checkups that include bloodwork, metabolism tests, ultrasounds and any treatments necessary to ensure the baby's…

Interesting that the health system in Finland has the concept of paid 'luxury' options. In the UK NHS that would be considered anathema.

Definitely in the NHS it would, but there's always the option of opting-out to the private system.

That's very much all-or-nothing though.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#53

Post by BSousa »

pointyhats wrote: post #4

They should do this in the UK. From observing the locals, the maternity grant (until yanked by the government) was used to buy designer gear for the mother, cigarettes and some expensive fashionable buggy for the baby (usually topped up by the baby's grandparents). Unfortunately essential stuff was forgotten. This solves those problems.

In Portugal, it's the same for most 'grants'. The day after they are payed, there are more drunks in the streets (Wife works in an ambulance, calls for drunk people laying in the floor are 3-4 times more in the days following pay than in the rest of the month)

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#54

Post by Nursie »

jszlasa wrote: post #28

A start up (or Google) ought to give a similar kind of thing to their employees on their first day. At minimum it would get marketing buzz.

??

"Hey Bob, glad you could join the team! Here's a big cardboard box to sleep in, it should fit under your desk nicely. You'll find a couple of onesies in there, some shampoo and shower gel, toothbrush, toothpaste etc. You'll never need to leave the office again!"

"Oh, and don't worry about that 'I'm sleeping in a coffin' feeling, it goes away after a couple of weeks"

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#55

Post by pointyhats »

vacri wrote: post #50
brazzy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you should know that your hypothesis remains unsupported by any data until that is done, and that it's not the job of people who doubt your hypothesis to do so. Apart from that, the location itself would introduce a bias, and I'm curious how exactly you would recognize women in the process of spending the maternity grant.

I'm sorry, but since your comment is entirely unsupported by a citation explaining philosophical fallacies or similar, your criticism remains unsupported, and hence it's not the job of the person you're responding to to satisfy your demand. What a vicious circle we create by demanding citations for any claim.

Yes indeed.

Philosophical note:

1. I think things that are desirable are easy to offer citations for because there is a motivation to promote the desirable.

2. Conversely, things that are not desirably are not researched by people who do not desire the result.

So the citation is moot if either way it is biased. If you ever read any medical papers, they are a fine example. Look at the efficacy of Seroxat/Paroxetine for a fine example. GSK papers = utterly wonder drug. Independent researchers = suicide pills.

Which is where we stand on everything more complicated than basic scientific issues.

Applying that to my point, there is nothing citable as the result is probably not politically desirable.

It's all "in my humble opinion".

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#56

Post by alan_cx »

pointyhats wrote: post #29
peteretep wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, no?

Not everything needs citation in the form of a survey or scientific paper. I doubt the results of it would be honest as the people who they would be surveying have an interest in lying about the things they have purchased with it. Some things are blatantly obvious if you peel your eyes occasionally and observe humanity.

No, but in the UK there is a wind of judgemental tabloid nastiness in this area. Lies like this are made up daily, based on a very small minority, and huge chunks of people are tarred with the same brush.

So, yeah, where is the research?

Well, there is none, because apart from tabloid smearing lies, there is none.

What is "obvious" is how nasty people are in the UK towards the poor working classes, who are under constant attack.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#57

Post by pointyhats »

dalke wrote: post #49
pointyhats wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the differences, probably more than you realise. I presented a hypothesis, which you can turn into a theory by sitting outside ASDA for a bit with a clipboard and a copy of SPSS. My suggestion was that you should try it.

Your original statement was "the maternity grant (until yanked by the government) was used to buy designer gear for the mother, ..." That it's happened at least once, I have no doubt. But I think you mean to use the phrase "was used to buy" to mean that it happens often enough to base a policy decision upon. The useful questions are "how often does it happen?" and more importantly "did yanking the policy lead to over…

I agree entirely.

I did not state it was citable or sound, but an observation.

The observation/hypothesis is valuable as it's the starting point for a discussion.

Presenting the extreme is disingenuous.

The answer to the correctness of my argument is neither yes or no - it is simply mu.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#58

Post by alan_cx »

pointyhats wrote: post #43
brazzy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you should know that your hypothesis remains unsupported by any data until that is done, and that it's not the job of people who doubt your hypothesis to do so. Apart from that, the location itself would introduce a bias, and I'm curious how exactly you would recognize women in the process of spending the maternity grant.

Yes it is unsupported. I admit that. But it's clearly observable. I'm sure many people here observe it regularly. You specify the problem the wrong way around. The women got pregnant because the maternity grant was offered as is a cosy council house and a career of being pregnant. That's how it works here. When you have three children like myself you spend a lot of time around parents and maternity units and the gene…

Sorry, but you are simply trotting out right wing UK tabloid lies. Please stop it. As a Brit, I find you and your lies crass and offensive. You see what you chose to see, and assume it applies to all. Mean while, you are Mr Perfect, right?

You and your attitude disgust me.

Sorry, HN, this is the first time I have had to post here like this. But I cannot let this "person" get away with such garbage. Not here.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#59

Post by pointyhats »

alan_cx wrote: post #56
pointyhats wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything needs citation in the form of a survey or scientific paper. I doubt the results of it would be honest as the people who they would be surveying have an interest in lying about the things they have purchased with it. Some things are blatantly obvious if you peel your eyes occasionally and observe humanity.

No, but in the UK there is a wind of judgemental tabloid nastiness in this area. Lies like this are made up daily, based on a very small minority, and huge chunks of people are tarred with the same brush. So, yeah, where is the research? Well, there is none, because apart from tabloid smearing lies, there is none. What is "obvious" is how nasty people are in the UK towards the poor working classes, who are under cons…

And by making the distinction of working class are you not contributing to that bias? I treat all people as classless.

The people described by myself are not bound by class, but by attitude and morals. There is no class distinction involved.

The problem is not specific to one traditional "class".

The whole "tabloid smearing lies" drivel is another form of enforced division by promoting classes of reading.

This sort of stuff annoys me.

(for reference I have never purchased a newspaper and rarely even bother to look at the news unless it's technology related)

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#60

Post by adaml_623 »

nej wrote: post #10

Title of this article sounds a lot worst than what the article presents (thankfully). This is off topic, but as refreshing as this article is, I wonder how many readers avoided reading this due to the title as it could've been a very depressing article.

That's interesting because I looked at the title and assumed almost the direct opposite to you. I assumed that I would read the article and find something uplifting and happy about babies in Finland. And something interesting about cardboard boxes in Nordic climates.

I visited Iceland years ago and observed that babies were often left outside in prams (rugged up and only during the day) and it turns out that the locals believe that it's quite healthy to do so.

Reading about this more recently shows that this isn't unique and a lot of cultures in colder climates do this.

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