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Visual Studio 2013

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Re: Visual Studio 2013

#91

Post by katbyte »

tracker1 wrote: post #52
archangel_one wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not hard. But how hard would it be to make large existing codebases which have always been built by VC++ compile against them? Very. Let alone the institutional aversion to admitting their competitors have done something better than them...

Personally I've wanted a project type without a "compile" in VS for a while... mainly for other environments that serve as a client/service for the VS stuff... I often use a "website" project and uncheck it from "build" but that's not quite what is needed. Mainly, as an example, I want to be able to have my NodeJS webservice project in the same solution as my MVC website project, and the C# dll client project. The No…

Perhaps you could create a custom target that overrides the compile\build targets and simply does nothing?

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#92

Post by munin »

pointyhats wrote: post #70
outside1234 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honest question, is the Windows kernel written in C++? If not, what does that team use to build it if "C is deprecated"?

The Windows kernel is C++. From what I've seen (shared source), it's mainly C-style C++ though. I didn't see a single template or a class in my travels.

If you read the WRK, ntoskrnl is all C...

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#93

Post by munin »

outside1234 wrote: post #60
pjmlp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C is officially deprecated. Personally I would like to see proper C++11 support instead of playing around with C++/CX and while they are at it, either provide a native compiler for .NET or improve NGEN's optimizer for C++ performance level. Given that Microsoft had .NET native compilers for Singularity and Windows Phone 8 .NET apps are compiled to native code, it isn't as if they don't have the tooling already availa…

honest question, is the Windows kernel written in C++? If not, what does that team use to build it if "C is deprecated"?

it's in C. as it was explained to me once, the compiler team asked the kernel team if they would be fine fixing C support at C89 and the kernel team said "sure". being the largest and most important consumer of the compiler (at the time, possibly still today) that was that.

the kernel team is also pretty slow to adapt new C compilers and you can see this by watching the lag in compiler versions released in the driver development kit vs those released with visual studio.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#94

Post by hkmurakami »

I was asked to renew our expiring VS licenses at my previous role, and was all but paralyzed by the bevy of options and bundles available.

What is the motivation behind having 10+ bundle and service options? Is it to trick us into buying the wrong thing, then forcing us to buy other addons that we initially didn't realize we needed? Is it an attempt to maximize sales by offering tons of bundle options to extract the maximum value out of the variety of customer needs that exist out there?

I guess shops that are even looking to buy VS are so locked into VS that we will spend the cognitive energy to figure out where the best value is for our needs, but this current method just doesn't seem elegant or efficient to me.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#95

Post by OrsenPike »

profquail wrote: post #86
jlewicki wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can indeed edit the color scheme. http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/366ad100-0003-...

I use this extension -- it comes with a Blue theme which provides a color scheme that's reasonably close to VS2010 (for those that prefer it).

FYI the blue theme is included as part of Update 2 for VS2012. It looks much nicer than the light and dark themes that 2012 has by default.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#96

Post by GravityWell »

jlewicki wrote: post #24
GravityWell wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't mind the menu caps, but I do find the way they are forcing their design choices on everyone somewhat antagonistic, and generally not smart. The same issue happened with their forced grey or white color schemes. It's not hard to give users the option to switch things like this to suit their preference. Yet MS has deliberately not provided any way to adjust these settings, and this gives users someth…

You can indeed edit the color scheme. http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/366ad100-0003-...

You can edit the scheme after hunting down and installing an extension which was not available at the initial release. The same could be said for the start menu on Win8. MS could have easily quieted the many loud voices by including options so the user can choose their own preferences.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#97

Post by bshock »

I'm astounded. Apparently the massive cruft and bloat of VS 2012 weren't enough -- they're actually issuing a VS 2013 that builds on a tool that has long since jumped the shark.

I have to thank Microsoft, though. It was the advent of both Windows 8 and Visual Studio 2012 that finally convinced me I needed to make my career independent of Microsoft products. I'd made the mistake of getting caught in the M$ rut in the late 1990s, and I've regretted it ever since. Visual Studio seemed like a fine tool for over a decade, I thought... and then the wake-up call of VS 2012 came like a kick in the teeth.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#98

Post by kabdib »

Permit wrote: post #36
jblow wrote: post #17

Yet another Visual Studio, yet another truckload of "features" that do nothing to help day-to-day, heavy-lifting programmers. (And which probably help by adding bugs or just bloating the system). Sigh. I am hoping they have made substantial improvements that are not mentioned in this blog post.

Out of curiosity, what kind of improvements would you like to see in Visual Studio?

Server farm builds.

A keyboard macro system that doesn't suck (e.g., is available and /as fast/ as the one in Emacs).

A way to compare project configurations without involving either XML or a sea of random dialog-like boxes.

The TFS and workflow features they are adding make me weep.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#99

Post by forgotAgain »

hkmurakami wrote: post #94

I was asked to renew our expiring VS licenses at my previous role, and was all but paralyzed by the bevy of options and bundles available. What is the motivation behind having 10+ bundle and service options? Is it to trick us into buying the wrong thing, then forcing us to buy other addons that we initially didn't realize we needed? Is it an attempt to maximize sales by offering tons of bundle options to extract the…

What is the motivation behind having 10+ bundle and service options?

Maximize revenues.

The trick is that many users will opt for the most expensive option because they don't understand or are intimidated by the marketing / licensing material and therefore make the safest choice. If you don't know what you need ( and most large corporate shops don't) you buy everything.

Having lower priced options mostly serves to hide the true costs of the product.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#100

Post by pjmlp »

danbruc wrote: post #90
pjmlp wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality speaks otherwise, http://www.west-wind.com/weblog/posts/2012/Mar/13/NET-45-is-... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11458159/how-to-keep-net-...

After reading through the two linked pages I can not see the relevance. The first article just discusses the in-place update but shows no (real) problems with that. The problem in the Stackoverflow question turns out to be caused by a bug in the OPs code and not by a breaking change between versions 4.0 and 4.5. Of interest may be the linked list of breaking changes [1] and given the size of the .NET framework it is…

Even if there was only one issue, that is an issue to spend effort working around it if you're the poor soul that needs to do the fix for the product that broke.
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