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Visual Studio 2013

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Re: Visual Studio 2013

#81

Post by MartinCron »

ajross wrote: post #71
FactoryFactory wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you're right, that clearly the "devs" have preferences. The problem with your mechanism is that they don't express them to you in customer service requests. They just job-hop to another environment, doing Javascript work, or Linux, or Ruby. And you never hear from them. >Basically, the way feedback works in this world is with feet, not bug reports. If you build it they will come. If you don't they will leave. Is…

Well, just to address the first point there is undeniably an "exodus" from Visual Studio. Just look at all the code shipped to run in browsers, or iOS, or Android, or on node or rails. A decade and a half ago a far (far!) greater fraction of that was spend in a Microsoft IDE. But that's really not the point. The upstream discussion was much narrower, and focused specifically on C/C++ support, which frankly sucks in t…

Just look at all the code shipped to run in browsers...

I use Visual Studio ship code to run in browsers every day.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#82

Post by cpeterso »

sriramk wrote: post #31
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #22

I wish they would dedicate more time to improving cl.exe and link.exe in terms of performance and language support and less time with these hokey team visualization gimics. Every release since 2008 has been getting slower and slower for C++, the C compiler is awful, PGO instrumentation in Win8 is less capable, and there's no equivalents in the Windows ecosystem to gcc's likely/unlikely, oprofile, or valgrind. It's at…

ex-VS person here (from 5 years ago though). It is never an either-or. It is always a complex mix of what customers ask for, what the strategic priorities/market realities are. Often the problem with these queries is that there are not enough devs complaining to MSFT. No PM/engg manager is going to ignore a bug/problem if it shows up high in customer requests. On promotions - I think it's the reverse problem. People…

Mozilla has been fighting the MSVC linker's 3GB virtual address space limit for years. Mozilla has asked Microsoft for a 64-bit linker that can produce 32-bit code, but Microsoft apparently has no plans for such a configuration.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/mozilla.d...

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#83

Post by pjmlp »

frozenport wrote: post #69
pjmlp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C is officially deprecated. Personally I would like to see proper C++11 support instead of playing around with C++/CX and while they are at it, either provide a native compiler for .NET or improve NGEN's optimizer for C++ performance level. Given that Microsoft had .NET native compilers for Singularity and Windows Phone 8 .NET apps are compiled to native code, it isn't as if they don't have the tooling already availa…

What do you mean by C being officially deprecated? As a whole this can't be possible as codes like the Linux kernel are written in C.

I mean that Microsoft already at the Visual Studio 2012 launch mentioned that the C tooling won't be updated except for critical bugs.

The main native language in Microsoft tooling is C++.

http://herbsutter.com/2012/05/03/reader-qa-what-about-vc-and...

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#84

Post by pointyhats »

evo_9 wrote: post #18
glhaynes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it hurt, though? You say you're not running 2012 yet, so obviously you're not feeling forced to upgrade before you're ready. So why shouldn't they put out the latest bits when they've got them ready and we users can start using them when we're ready?

If you've ever had to maintain a large, legacy .net app that has been around since 1.0 or even has some ASP 'classic' code in it, upgrading is a major nightmare. I know at least two shops right now 'stuck' on 2005 because various problems upgrading to 2008, let alone to 2012 or 2013 now. They are more likely to re-write the whole thing in Ruby at this point. I'm actually running 2012 personally, not such a big deal o…

To be honest I dragged a 1.5MLOC .Net 1.1 Web Forms and SQL 2000 application up to 4.0 and SQL 2008 R2 last year.

It wasn't that much of a problem. It took about 3 days and most of that was fixing deprecation warnings and porting the in house test framework to NUnit.

The real problem in the process was getting the build tooling and all the associated crap surrounding the solution up and running. This was also only because the muppets who wrote it originally put it together with sticky tape and string.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#85

Post by glhaynes »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #38
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #20

Does anyone happen to know if it supports inline assembly (64 bit) yet?

They don't support inline assembly because it messes with the register allocation in their compiler. It's likely they'll never support it because of this. :(

I'm not a compiler guy, but wouldn't this be true for any compiler?

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#86

Post by profquail »

jlewicki wrote: post #24
GravityWell wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't mind the menu caps, but I do find the way they are forcing their design choices on everyone somewhat antagonistic, and generally not smart. The same issue happened with their forced grey or white color schemes. It's not hard to give users the option to switch things like this to suit their preference. Yet MS has deliberately not provided any way to adjust these settings, and this gives users someth…

You can indeed edit the color scheme. http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/366ad100-0003-...

I use this extension -- it comes with a Blue theme which provides a color scheme that's reasonably close to VS2010 (for those that prefer it).

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#87

Post by jedbrown »

yitchelle wrote: post #74
frozenport wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by C being officially deprecated? As a whole this can't be possible as codes like the Linux kernel are written in C.

I think he meant in the context of Visual Studio 2013. Imagine doing a build of the Linux kernel with Visual Studio 2013?!?

Many cross-platform libraries are written in C. Microsoft's terrible support for C causes those projects a significant amount of pain. If the upstream library developers don't have time/interest to restrict their dialect to avoid various C features and to test regularly with Microsoft compilers, they either (a) drop support for Windows, or (b) only support Windows via non-Microsoft compilers. Neither of these options are very appealing for users of those libraries on Windows.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#88

Post by gngeal »

yitchelle wrote: post #74
frozenport wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by C being officially deprecated? As a whole this can't be possible as codes like the Linux kernel are written in C.

I think he meant in the context of Visual Studio 2013. Imagine doing a build of the Linux kernel with Visual Studio 2013?!?

Well, you might want to do that if you were building a colinux-style paravirtualized system on top of the Windows kernel.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#89

Post by mischanix »

acqq wrote: post #75
mischanix wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happens regardless of precompiled headers, so I don't think that's the issue. I do think it's an include problem, but I don't know why.

It's precompiled headers and it can be proved: If you would try to turn off precompiled headers in your project and rebuild it, the compilation would fail in all the files in which you see the red lines. It's because your project has subfolders and the files in the subfolders reach stdafx only by accident of having the "use precompiled headers" turned on. So once you fix the include path, and that you can do on the p…

I'm not using PCH in the most recent example. I've been playing with this project: http://code.google.com/p/freetype-gl/ , so it includes Freetype, GLUT (using freeglut), and opengl stuff. Builds fine, intellisense lines everywhere.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#90

Post by danbruc »

pjmlp wrote: post #78
[deleted] wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Reality speaks otherwise, http://www.west-wind.com/weblog/posts/2012/Mar/13/NET-45-is-... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11458159/how-to-keep-net-...

After reading through the two linked pages I can not see the relevance. The first article just discusses the in-place update but shows no (real) problems with that. The problem in the Stackoverflow question turns out to be caused by a bug in the OPs code and not by a breaking change between versions 4.0 and 4.5. Of interest may be the linked list of breaking changes [1] and given the size of the .NET framework it is a very short list.

[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh367887.aspx

Note: The deleted comment was something like »This is not true«.

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