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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#301

Post by alptrv »

joering2 wrote: post #199
DeusExMachina wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at the video again. If you look it in slow motion, you can see that there is another man crouching in the back. Although the man in the front might not be visible to the tank driver, the one behind should be and has no shield. Also, just before the impact the tank fires the water cannon in the exact direction of the two. Might be a coincidence or a proof they saw them. But even in the event they did not see…

It doesnt show precisely, but the bumper is extremely low. I dont think he gut sucked underneath... he got pushed away in whichever direction -- we can't see because of the water. No?

Yeah, he safe, he was pushed to the right, you can see it at 0:09

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#302

Post by simonh »

venus wrote: post #235
JDShu wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand your criticism here. The entire point of the post was that Singapore is a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom. Singaporeans (or at least the ones who are left) happen to be willing to accept less freedoms in exchange for economic success, but it doesn't take an especially libertarian mindset to decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over…

> a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom I'm not arguing with that. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it has been conclusively proved that being able to exercise that freedom leads to a better society, and it is that end we should be thinking about, not the means. > decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over wealth Long term, if political freedom doesn't…

>I'm not arguing with that. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it has been conclusively proved that being able to exercise that freedom leads to a better society, and it is that end we should be thinking about, not the means.

There is a problem with centralised political power, and that's that if a nastier, more corrupt and less tolerant clique gets hold of that power there is absolutely nothing that can stop your pleasant and prosperous one party state from becoming an oppressive and dystopian one. That is the problem. In fact it's a historical truism that absolute power eventually does corrupt absolutely, or at least that eventually the absolutely corrupt will gravitate to that position of power.

Simon Hibbs

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#303

Post by mpowel »

Here are some links that may help you see what is happening in Istanbul... Turkey is turning into a viloent police state... Thats whats happening!

* Evidence collection site for police violence: http://delilimvar.tumblr.com/

* Police and pro-government militia attacking innocent people: http://pic.twitter.com/QTunT6irOF

http://f.cl.ly/items/263f2A3T0b093I2D0r2G/alsancak%2002.06.2...

http://24.media.tumblr.com/339ecfc6a17e0d372896dcf1065672b6/...

* Streets and residential areas indiscriminately turned into gas chambers: http://youtu.be/WaDT1KPEuB8

http://pic.twitter.com/0RogcpOIUV

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#304

Post by ars »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #286
ars wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are correct. The active ingredient in Agent Orange is routinely in use for weed control. > > It is incredibly toxic and forbidden by the UN after the horrific effects it had on both the Vietnamese and Americans exposed to it. It's not forbidden by the UN, the active ingredient is 2,4-D and is the 3rd most used herbicide in america. The other ingredient 2,4,5-T is non toxic, but making it commonly contaminate…

Thanks for the explanation, I wasn't aware of that. When they say it's a derivative, they probably mean closer to that herbicide then? I still haven't heard anything about it actually being used there, but would that seem at all reasonable to you? A police force that uses tear gas and don't want to kill people, would they plausibly use such a derivative for the same purpose?

It would do absolutely nothing to a person. Some other people on the thread theorized that since pepper spray is orange people confused it with that.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#305

Post by skore »

enraged_camel wrote: post #299
skore wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember your comment from yesterday, where you wrote about what is happening in Ankara, stating "I don't live there right now". Of course, not even living anywhere near where you are, I cannot qualify this myself. But my question (that I hope you won't understand as offensive) to you is: Is it possible that you are victim to your somewhat limited horizon and to the possibly biased information that you get from you…

I don't get any of my information from the government. They are censoring all the newspapers and channels... Social media is a lot more reliable to get up-to-date information. Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook, etc.

Then this comment of yours doesn't make much sense: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5802911

Do you still think this means "fuck-all"?

(And again: Just trying to get a clear picture of what it is you're saying.)

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#306

Post by krzyk »

spcs wrote: post #285

This was a posted by a friend on Facebook: Since I see that some friends have got excited about the recent events in Turkey I decided to write something about it and provide some context. I think it is good to know a bit of history of Turkey before AKP to understand what is going on there. It has been more than 10 years that AKP is in power so people might not know or may have forgotten the situation before AKP. Turk…

Where does the 70% came from? Do you have a source for this? It would be better to check how many "scarf-wearers" are going to universities, this percentage would be meaningful. My opinion is that universities should be religion-free as science doesn't play well with religion.

I think that the problem might be that the (nonsecular) east wants to rule the (secular) west and viceversa.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#307

Post by balsam »

enraged_camel wrote: post #255
api wrote: post #158

"These people are my friends. They are my students, my relatives. They have no «hidden agenda» as the state likes to say. Their agenda is out there. It is very clear. The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its…

Wow. I am speechless. As someone who was born and raised in Turkey, and visited Singapore for long periods of time, let me say very clearly: you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Turkey and Singapore are two completely different worlds, with different histories, cultures, and geopolitical situations, and are not related in any shape or form. There may be a few surface-level parallels, but that's wher…

You know, actually the US isn't that much freer in practice compared to Singapore. In theory, perhaps. And the reason has less to do with the decline of rugged individualism amongst soccer moms than the existence of a constant low-level background threat, whether from terrorism, a sizable underclass, law enforcement, or (this might be embarassing for some) alcoholism. They don't check IDs for alcohol in Singapore. If you want to see actual practical examples of freedom, you have to go to western Europe. However, if you say that it is the US which makes sacrifices to provide those freedoms, I will actually agree with you. For the record, I was born and raised in Singapore and have lived in the US for the last decade.

EDIT: all these debates have the political reek of programming language wars... US Lisp; Singapore C++.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#308

Post by geuis »

lysol wrote: post #266
geuis wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. I'm a techie but I also have a protest past (don't actively engage in that anymore but support in other ways) and I wasn't aware of the situation in Singapore. I think we saw a lot of this in the US after 9/11 when Bush went from being a 1-term joke to suddenly having clout. What many younger people here might not know is that only 12 years ago, life in the US was different. You could board planes without…

Boston wasn't systematically shut down -- The call to stay indoors was voluntary. There were plenty of people out, plenty of pictures from people shooting photos of deserted freeways and streets. Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment.

Noted. Interesting, my perception was much more authoritarian. I'll admit to some bias on my part when everything seems over handed.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#309

Post by chrischen »

jackowayed wrote: post #246
venus wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom I'm not arguing with that. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it has been conclusively proved that being able to exercise that freedom leads to a better society, and it is that end we should be thinking about, not the means. > decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over wealth Long term, if political freedom doesn't…

> Long term, if political freedom doesn't bring wealth, then what is the bloody point? Seriously? You think that everything a government should strive to guarantee is a means where the end is wealth? You don't think that equality, freedom to criticize questionable government practices (even those that improve GDP), or anything else should be a goal in itself?

I think you probably went through the US education system? US schools brainwash kids into thinking that democracy and freedom to criticize the government are inherently good concepts, but in reality they are only desirable because of the practical effects it may or may not produce. There are no universal morals, and because of that you can't say democracy is inherently "right." So I have to side with your parent and say that democracy is only "right" if you believe that its effects in improving society objectively are "right." Schools just simplify it as "democracy is inherently right" because its easier to indoctrinate that principle.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#310

Post by krzyk »

gkya wrote: post #88
idoco wrote: post #17

I recommend - http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/ What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.

Turkey actually is a successful example of a democratic state where Islam is the religion of the vast majority, albeit it is not a Muslim state, as the constitution is religion-agnostic; nowhere in it exists a phrase which even implies that the state has an official religion. Current government follows a conservative policy and has been elected with roughly 49% of votes. This eventually gave them power and resources…

> A party with less than 10% vote rate can not have it's members in the parliament, which eventually let them occupy more that 50% of the 550 quota of the number of parliamentarians.

Actually it's not a bug, if they would allow smaller parties they would have 10,20,50 parties in there, some with only one person. It would be a mess - hard to make any decision.

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