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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#291

Post by wtn »

blhack wrote: post #176
bconway wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see stories like this, I'm always impressed at the wide availability of gas masks. Are we even allowed to own those in the States?* *Yes, I know how sad of a question that is.

Of course we're "allowed" to own them in the United States... Despite what people on reddit, and other fringe internet forums would have you believe, The United States has some of the strongest personal liberties in the world.

Here are the rules by US state: http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/mcs/maskcodes.html

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#292

Post by wavefunction »

guelo wrote: post #262

"There is now a menace which is called Twitter," Erdogan said. "The best examples of lies can be found there. To me, social media is the worst menace to society." I've been surprised by the amount of control the government has over the media. I always thought of Turkey as being more liberal.

People (and countries) can change, especially when people who are interested in changing a country gravitate to power. The only guarantee of our freedoms in a modern civil society is our continued vigilance and active participation in it.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#293

Post by skore »

enraged_camel wrote: post #255
api wrote: post #158

"These people are my friends. They are my students, my relatives. They have no «hidden agenda» as the state likes to say. Their agenda is out there. It is very clear. The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its…

Wow. I am speechless. As someone who was born and raised in Turkey, and visited Singapore for long periods of time, let me say very clearly: you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Turkey and Singapore are two completely different worlds, with different histories, cultures, and geopolitical situations, and are not related in any shape or form. There may be a few surface-level parallels, but that's wher…

I remember your comment from yesterday, where you wrote about what is happening in Ankara, stating "I don't live there right now".

Of course, not even living anywhere near where you are, I cannot qualify this myself. But my question (that I hope you won't understand as offensive) to you is: Is it possible that you are victim to your somewhat limited horizon and to the possibly biased information that you get from your government?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#294

Post by nairteashop »

venus wrote: post #235
JDShu wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand your criticism here. The entire point of the post was that Singapore is a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom. Singaporeans (or at least the ones who are left) happen to be willing to accept less freedoms in exchange for economic success, but it doesn't take an especially libertarian mindset to decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over…

> a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom I'm not arguing with that. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it has been conclusively proved that being able to exercise that freedom leads to a better society, and it is that end we should be thinking about, not the means. > decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over wealth Long term, if political freedom doesn't…

It depends whether you think it is ok for the government: - to ban chewing gum - to publicly cane people (limited to "6 strokes" for women, how nice) - to enforce capital punishment (i.e. killing people for allegedly killing people) - to limit your rights to criticize your government - etc ...provided that it guarantees you good money.

There is nothing inherently wrong with your point of view, and I have many friends who live in singapore, dubai, etc who do not have issues with rules such as the above.

However, I also know many people who value personal freedom above all, and do not think that being guaranteed money supersedes these freedoms. (FWIW I count myself in this group).

I know I'm stretching this a bit, but if you've watched the Matrix, this is the difference between the protagonists who wish freedom from the machines, and Cypher (Joe Pantoliano) who thinks the illusion of a good life is just fine with him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAsgavFvohI

He does have a point, but most of us identified with the protagonists, right?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#295

Post by swift »

cjc1083 wrote: post #283

Tear gas and Water cannons are the best non-lethal methods for crowd control available... honestly I think the turkish police are doing a good a job at controlling this as possible. All the media and reddit pictures are from the side of the protesters, a few pictures of people who get knocked in the head with a tear gas container != cops beating and shooting innocent people as they would have you believe. Also from e…

Tear gas canisters are "non-lethal", perhaps, but that's not the bar I think should be set. An example of the kind of thing that can happen:

http://gothamist.com/2010/06/01/cooper_union_student_loses_e...

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#296

Post by wavefunction »

pknerd wrote: post #224
dasil003 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly from my comments you would see that I am interested in learning facts so don't act so wounded. However, so far all you have presented is the idea that if the US sponsors some protests against an Islamic government, all protests against Islamic governments are created by US sponsorship. It's not very convincing without evidence.

Evidence. So far many things world believed didn't have any evidence, for instance WMD. Coming to your main Question, If you look how Egypt Spring started, it was all to getrid of Mobarak, US, the former ally of Mobarak left em all alone as did it in past. I could share articles like this( http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/50553/wikileaks-u-s-governme... ) one but I left you upto you to figure out. Point is, every _rev…

I understand you're from a part of the world where a lot of people are not fond of America (for both valid and invalid reasons, in my opinion). The same thing these people in Turkey are fighting against is going on all over the world, INCLUDING the US.

I hope you understand that like pretty much everywhere, there are "good and decent" people and some "bad" people. Unfortunately, the "bad" people always seem to be the sorts who want to force other people to live their way, while the "good" people mostly want to live their lives the way they want and not force other people. It's as true of America as it is of Pakistan.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#297

Post by wnight »

cjc1083 wrote: post #283

Tear gas and Water cannons are the best non-lethal methods for crowd control available... honestly I think the turkish police are doing a good a job at controlling this as possible. All the media and reddit pictures are from the side of the protesters, a few pictures of people who get knocked in the head with a tear gas container != cops beating and shooting innocent people as they would have you believe. Also from e…

A good job of controlling something they incited? They didn't need to use violence on non-violent protestors.

At this point they're lawless thugs with guns.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#298

Post by skore »

jasonlingx wrote: post #240
geuis wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have no clue what's going on, do you? I'm honestly not trying to be rude. It's just that you come across as entirely missing the guy in the gorilla suit in the middle of the basketball game. The quintissential idea of a dystopia is that it's a safe place to live, the streets are clean, you have jobs and food and security. As long as you stay in the lines put in place by the State you're fine. But women can…

> But you don't seem to get that we aren't really talking about Singapore. You are right, I have no idea what this has to do with Singapore at all! And if we aren't talking about Singapore why do we keep saying Singapore?!

> I have no idea what this has to do with Singapore at all!

So clearly the best option is to simply claim it as "rubbish" instead of discussing and trying to understand the other persons viewpoint.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#299

Post by enraged_camel »

skore wrote: post #293
enraged_camel wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I am speechless. As someone who was born and raised in Turkey, and visited Singapore for long periods of time, let me say very clearly: you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Turkey and Singapore are two completely different worlds, with different histories, cultures, and geopolitical situations, and are not related in any shape or form. There may be a few surface-level parallels, but that's wher…

I remember your comment from yesterday, where you wrote about what is happening in Ankara, stating "I don't live there right now". Of course, not even living anywhere near where you are, I cannot qualify this myself. But my question (that I hope you won't understand as offensive) to you is: Is it possible that you are victim to your somewhat limited horizon and to the possibly biased information that you get from you…

I don't get any of my information from the government. They are censoring all the newspapers and channels... Social media is a lot more reliable to get up-to-date information. Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook, etc.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#300

Post by nairteashop »

jasonlingx wrote: post #245
geuis wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Singapore. Litter. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CRiqfOMVC74/T69l6BH1vVI/AAAAAAAAL8... What bubble are you living in because it desperately needs to be popped.

Are you seriously trying to say you can get caned for littering in Singapore? It is exactly this kind of ignorant statement spoken as if it were fact that irks me.

Are you saying that singapore doesn't cane people, or that it doesn't cane people for littering? Maybe you are right about the latter (I can only find evidence that you will be arrested, perhaps not caned, for littering) but caning is most certainly a thing in Singapore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#Legal_basis http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1017.html

If caning its own citizens is not evidence of a nanny state that treats people like children, I don't know what is.

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