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What is Happening in Istanbul?

defnesumanblogs.com

181–190 of 519 posts

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#181
post #158

"These people are my friends. They are my students, my relatives. They have no «hidden agenda» as the state likes to say. Their agenda is out there. It is very clear. The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its…

What a load of rubbish. What does this have anything to do with Singapore?!

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#182

I have sympathy for the protesters but I do wish they had protested just as vehemently when the government began to silence the Press. A Free Press does not guarantee democracy but it does bark loudly and fiercely when it senses danger to the democracy.

unfortunately you are right; that's why the government slowly captured the media; the 2nd largest group was employing prime minister erdogan's groom for a long time (probably still is).

today the minister called, 'there is this damned twitter, ruining our society...'

so turks use now, twitter, facebook, foursquare, ustream tv, tumblr as 'the media'..

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#183
post #17

I recommend - http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/ What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.

[deleted]

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#184
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Muslim democratic state. There are very, very few religious democracies, and if you only consider those both officially and effectively religious, I won’t be able to name a single one.

I think this description was more akin to describing the USA or Germany as “Christian democratic states” as a majority in both of those are Christians. It doesn’t mean that Christianity is the state religion or something. Turkey has been a successful majority Muslim but very secular and democratic state for a very long time. Maybe that’s changing … (Ah, decisions, decisions. Sometimes I think the EU should have accel…

> Turkey has been a successful majority Muslim but very secular and democratic state for a very long time. Maybe that’s changing …

Uhm. Military coups in: 1960, 1971, 1980, as well as substantial intervention in the succession of power in 1997 that many considers a coup.

The secular nature of the Turkish state has largely remained as secular as it is because the Turkish military has a tendency to conduct coups whenever they deem someone is trying to introduce religiously motivated laws, coupled with a legal system that is frequently used to shut down political parties that mix politics and religion.

Turkey does not exactly have a very solid democratic tradition yet.

We have yet to see if the "Memorandum" issued in 1997 and allowing the current government is a sign the military has softened it's stance, but it's very clear that so far at least, the elected Turkish governments serve at the mercy of the military.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#185

The tearing down of trees for commercial and residential areas is happening here too. It's called urban sprawl. Land developers wipe out natural habitats like forests and leave sterile, artificial suburbs and plazas in its stead. Most citizens never hear about it until it's too late because it's not easy to find out about the latest zonings. Trying to have a say in the process? Well, that's a whole new level of obfus…

This isn't urban sprawl, this isn't the tearing down of forests. This is removing a park in the middle of the city. Imaging if they came in and bulldozed Central Park.

You actually raise an interesting parallel: poor communities and planning organizations had railed against the bulldozers of Robert Moses for decades, but in the media he could do no wrong. That was before he tried to build in Central Park. When his policies finally threatened a beloved playground to build private parking, a group well-to-do mothers on the Upper West Side stood up and it triggered the beginning of his downfall.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#186
post #127
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've been to both cities for two weeks and I didn't find any mall in NYC (I'm sure there must be some, I just didn't find them) while in Istanbul they are really everywhere, you cannot ignore them if not only because they are usually guarded by security people with riffles. Here's a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shopping_malls_in_Istan... They are usually huge. I was very surprise because in my hom…

I don't have any trouble believing there are many malls in Istanbul. I do have some trouble believing you can reasonably answer whether they are too many by just checking on the internet. In fact, as you point out, it's possible to visit NYC and not notice how many there are. I also have some difficulty with the idea that people are heading out to the streets, risking life and limb, in multiple cities across Turkey j…

You talk as if you care about uncovering the truth, then in the face of:

* The original claim on the blog

* Some research a poster here helpfully did using Google maps and web searches to verify

* Stories from multiple people who have visited Istanbul in person and can compare to other european cities

... you are still banging the drum of "You can't answer a question just by checking the internet!"

I wonder: what kind of evidence would get you to the point where you might believe such a claim?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Muslim democratic state. There are very, very few religious democracies, and if you only consider those both officially and effectively religious, I won’t be able to name a single one.

> I won’t be able to name a single one. UK?

The UK is a democracy with a state religion and a monarch. Weird.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" don't really do anything consistently. When it's Hollywood or SOPA or NSLs or wiretaps "we" are passionately anti-government, when it's AirBnB or Uber flaunting local restrictions, "we" are very skeptical and when it's Google not paying enough tax, "we" are government cheerleaders. That said: > A dying model of Governance could take things to a rather unprecedented level of nastiness and cruelty. You haven't pai…

Doesn't that just sound like "we're" pro citizen?

Any half-competent political hack can spin anything so it's "pro citizen". A staggering proportion of citizens are in favour for the privacy/security trade off, it's just that We Know Better(tm). Of course Google and Apple should pay their fair share, I just can't get excited about it, I don't see how adding more money to the same semi-corrupt deeply immoral special interests buffet that brought you SOPA, and simultaneously distracting from the ongoing scandals of the political system, benefits anyone but the politicians.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#189
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemalism Ideology that Kemalism brings defines the fundamental principles of Turkish Republic.

The revolutionism part is kindof odd, don't you think? A tradition that calls for the rejection of traditions.

Turkey has long (before Erdogan) hewed towards secularism in public life despite being a majority muslim country, generally guaranteed by the force of the Turkish army. Kind of like how Americans hope that if the US government ever turns on its citizens (or more than it has already), our brothers and sisters in the military won't turn their guns on us and will disobey orders.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#190
I was curious to learn the current status, so I looked through Turkish news sites. According to Hurriyet Daily News, the project to demolish the park has been suspended:

"Court suspends planned Artillery Barracks project to replace Gezi Park. An administrative court has suspended the conversion project in the lung of Istanbul."

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/court-suspends-planned-arti...

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