Also see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0rwLxPi1Lg&list=PLE0E8B6... for some context on how the economic arrangement is organised.
Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
41–50 of 175 posts
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#42Regardless of where it's from, this is the most horrifying video I have EVER seen. I'm just speechless.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#43> Pollution, a total disrespect for the environment in general and for human lives in particular is what powers the trade that brings cheap goods to the stores near us. The Anti-China propaganda has reached HN.
Wow, that's quite a feat of misunderstanding. And I tried pretty hard to make sure that that exact comment wouldn't be made in order to reject the thing out of hand. I'm fine with producing goods in the far east, but the fact is that the low prices are in fact powered by more than just a simple difference in value between currencies and standard of living. The pollution and the work place risks (including death) are…
but the fact is that the low prices are in fact powered by more than just a simple difference in value between currencies and standard of living.
Outsourcing to China is based on a well known economic theory of international trade, called the H-O model[1], which basically says " that countries will export products that use their abundant and cheap factor(s) of production and import products that use the countries' scarce factor(s)."
The pollution and the work place risks (including death) are a really large factor in those price differences
Is this really news? I think the real issue here is the misinformation that is painted across media outlets, hence the OP's "propaganda" comment.
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckscher%E2%80%93Ohlin_model
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#44This post (like many others) completely ignores the fact that these people choose to work in this environment. Statistics show that factory / industrial workers in China are doing better than those who stay in rural jobs. Human development indicators in China have constantly risen since the 1980's [1] and the economy is booming [2]. These sweatshops are horrific to our standards, but to their standards, these are gre…
...and there we go, the proverbial, libertarian "choice".
And what other, non-libertarian choices do these workers have?
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#45This article has it backwards. These workers don't work is unsafe conditions, _because_ we don't pay them enough. Rather, the economic reality in China means that in order to compete with production elsewhere (e.g. in the US) even a high risk for workers still seems acceptable to them if that means they can get the job. If we would pay more, the jobs would be done elsewhere or by robots and those workers won't be happy about that, either. Still, this is capitalism at its worst, I guess.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#46> Pollution, a total disrespect for the environment in general and for human lives in particular is what powers the trade that brings cheap goods to the stores near us. The Anti-China propaganda has reached HN.
Wow, that's quite a feat of misunderstanding. And I tried pretty hard to make sure that that exact comment wouldn't be made in order to reject the thing out of hand. I'm fine with producing goods in the far east, but the fact is that the low prices are in fact powered by more than just a simple difference in value between currencies and standard of living. The pollution and the work place risks (including death) are…
It's not misunderstanding. You link to an awful video, draw general conclusions on the account of one event, and your unsaid conclusion is that Chinese people disdain human lives. 100 years ago you'd have added infanticide.
So, no, Chinese people are not heartless zombies workers, they cherish human life and had a full structured ethical system when Europe was Barbary, and they are taking themselves out of survival mode at a pace that is unseen in the history, which require some prioritization.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#47I didn't watch the video after reading the description. But this problem of poor worker conditions (and poor compensation) is true of so many goods produced cheaply in China or other countries in Asia. I feel we in the "West" (i.e North America, Western Europe) have an ambivalent attitude towards this issue. We decry the outsourcing of manufacturing to other countries, yet we're only too happy to continue purchasing…
The problem is Fair Trade is that it distorts the price signal in the market (obviously, that's the point). But the reason coffee is so cheap is that there is an oversupply - artificially raising the prices extends the problem, it doesn't solve it (by making some farmers realise they can compete better by switching crops).
If you want to help, buy expensive, high end coffee - most of it will be Fair Trade anyway, so I can't say "instead of Fair Trade". But getting the default, supermarket brand coffee that's 10% more expensive than the non-Fair Trade option damages more than it helps.
Also, I remember reading somewhere that Fair Trade places some irrelevant constraints on suppliers, such as the size of the supplier. I can't find a reference, so it might be wrong, but if it's not, then that suggests that pandering to western, urban romantic fantasies about rural life plays an inappropriate role in the scheme as well.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#48I had to google: OHSA
->
Occupational Health and Safety Act
didnt know what it was since I am not american
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
It looks like a reoccurring pattern today, that unexplained conspiracy theories are used to dismiss a well formed argument. Another example from the "What is Happening in Istanbul" thread - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5808064 You can't just drop accusations like that without supporting them with, at least, an equally well formed argument.
> It looks like a reoccurring pattern You want the political articles, you've got to accept the degraded quality of the site and discussion that goes along with them.
According to Thomas Mann "Everything is politics." , and this article is about technology not less than it's about politics.
But I have to agree, that sadly there is a correlation between the low level of discussion and how political a topic is.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
...and there we go, the proverbial, libertarian "choice".
And what other, non-libertarian choices do these workers have?
Good point. The other choice is planned economy, state regulation all over the place, including in haircut style. They just have a border to cross to see the result in DPRK, or open a book on recent history, or ask the elder. The result is well known: it's starvation.