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Why I’m Going to India

thegatesnotes.com

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Re: Why I’m Going to India

#101

Post by lmm »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #4
marcosscriven wrote: post #2

While what he's doing is obviously good, I am uneasy with the whole idea that one man accumulates so much wealth in the first place, and then decides as an unelected individual what's best for a country. Having said that, I'm not sure i have a particularly good answer to this conundrum.

I'm fairly uncomfortable that one elected individual with a fairly small majority and a rapidly declining approval rating can decide what is best for a country. Consolidation of power is the problem; not the method by which it is acquired.

And yet a committee of hundreds is if anything worse (I'd certainly trust any one of my representatives individually over the full house), and some decisions really do need to be made at the national level.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#102

Post by lmm »

skaevola wrote: post #13
marcosscriven wrote: post #2

While what he's doing is obviously good, I am uneasy with the whole idea that one man accumulates so much wealth in the first place, and then decides as an unelected individual what's best for a country. Having said that, I'm not sure i have a particularly good answer to this conundrum.

People voluntarily gave their wealth to him.

He was able to acquire wealth because he was able to take risks that most people wouldn't, because of his wealthy background. And if you trace back far enough, most old-money families acquired their wealth through violence (or at least the patronage of a ruler who acquired their wealth by force).

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#103

Post by crusso »

jacquesm wrote: post #92
dwc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is a pretty smart guy. He set aside some "feel good" philanthropy and seems to go straight to the heart of things. He's done a lot of good, beyond the money he brings to the table.

He's done a lot of damage too, and every pc that I buy that has some useless piece of windows junk on it he does just a little more.

How can you categorically claim that he's done a lot of damage? How have you factored in his being a huge part of why the PC became so popular that advances were driven forward dramatically over the last couple of decades and prices have been driven down?

It's like complaining about ads on the web. Without them, a lot of incredible things would have never seen the light of day. Hippies in communes rarely produce much that anyone else cares about, but they sure do a great job of recycling.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#104

Post by naveens »

lmm wrote: post #100
dirkgently wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before that, all of human history is pretty brutal and poor. Interesting that you brought it up. Ironically, it was India that was probably ahead of other civilizations way earlier than 1500s. Then history happened. And then finally Europeans happened - the same Europeans who invented "individual rights, scientific enlightenment, and all that".

>And then finally Europeans happened - the same Europeans who invented "individual rights, scientific enlightenment, and all that". And what was their effect? Governance that, while not fully democratic, was less capricious than that which preceded it. A dampening of some of the worst effects of the caste system. Fewer women burning on pyres. A national language that's internationally prominent, which India has reape…

It was evil exploitation by definition and by reality. There were some benefits I give you that, chief among them is bringing the masses to the democratic political mainstream (speaking only about India; this did not happen in most of Africa) Mother country? Investment? Show me that place in history where capital flowed in to a colony.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#105

Post by jussij »

jussij wrote: post #84
Retric wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He had a large enough trust fund to never need to work a day in his life, so I don't see where you get humble beginnings.

> I don't see where you get humble beginnings He is the son of a lawyer and a college drop out.

I guess the HN reality is he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and never had any impact on the IT world.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#106

Post by chris_mahan »

crapshoot101 wrote: post #85
chris_mahan wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so what can he do? I mean, let's say he spends 10 billion dollars, on 100 million people. That would be $100 each. I don't suppose there is any way to insure that all these people get their $100, because of the problem of distribution, identity verification, etc. You can't mail them a check. You can't mail them cash. You can't trust local delivery men to do the job (they'll pocket it and say they delivered, or th…

I think this is an absurd standard. For want of perfection, he should do nothing? What he's doing has shown clear impact. I'm a skeptic on much of NGO land, but the Gates foundation is better than most and has hard gains to show for it. Gates is working in India on education, on environmental safety, on sanitation (seriously - I've heard talk repeatedly that his number one goal right now is a better toilet / sanitary…

I hear you.

I think he's doing good, true, better than nothing.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#107

Post by statictype »

phaus wrote: post #89
statictype wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give me examples of this caste system probem? After actually living in India for some time - my impression has been the opposite - overzealous affirmative action

If you're in a position where you even have to submit a resume or deal with an organization that even knows what affirmative action is, you are already in a better caste than the majority of India.

The affirmative action is dictated by the government. Not private organizations - especially at the education level

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#108

Post by dirkgently »

lmm wrote: post #100
dirkgently wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before that, all of human history is pretty brutal and poor. Interesting that you brought it up. Ironically, it was India that was probably ahead of other civilizations way earlier than 1500s. Then history happened. And then finally Europeans happened - the same Europeans who invented "individual rights, scientific enlightenment, and all that".

>And then finally Europeans happened - the same Europeans who invented "individual rights, scientific enlightenment, and all that". And what was their effect? Governance that, while not fully democratic, was less capricious than that which preceded it. A dampening of some of the worst effects of the caste system. Fewer women burning on pyres. A national language that's internationally prominent, which India has reape…

> It's fashionable to pretend that colonialism was nothing but evil European exploitation.

Please show me where I said that. My point was more towards associating Europeans with "individual rights, scientific enlightenment, and all that".

Of course there were benefits, and some were very important one. But let's not pretend it was purely humanitarian, or just for the benefits of the locals.

I'd strongly suggest you find historical records of The East India company and it's ledgers - the unholy amount of money the English siphoned out of India was an eyeopener to me. Until then, I too believed that colonization was good.

I am not even going into the details of separation of the country, the manner in which it was done, and the massacre that followed.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#109

Post by MartinCron »

zurn wrote: post #87
MartinCron wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like the kind of society that doesn't need to use force (legitimized by democratically elected representatives, checks and balances, and the rule of law) to take care of the most vulnerable, but I have yet to see any precedent of that. You mention Japan, they have a very pervasive government social safety net. Places without effective governments? Those are places where people do routinely die of hunger and t…

From what I hear Japan doesn't have a good social safety net. See eg. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/world/asia/08japan.html?pa... I would be happy to be wrong and the situation might have improved very recently?

That's an interesting article about how Japan hadn't yet extended their safety net (which includes things like universal health care) to the emerging edge case of mass layoffs, something that just didn't happen in their culture before.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#110

Post by snambi »

aashaykumar92 wrote: post #34

I'm seeing a lot of "What Mr. Gates is doing is great BUT [insert negatives]". Timing is everything. IMO, this is the perfect timing to start a mission such as the one Mr. Gates is. Why? Well having just been to India last year, my cousins were complaining about how India is filled with geniuses, yet very few who want to take risks (whether it be to help fix the poverty, the political system, or just start cool compa…

"To make real progress on the problems of the poorest, you need at least two ingredients: a deep understanding of the problems, and the technical ability to solve them."

Is technical ability really necessary? Some problems cannot be solved by technology. It may be political solution. It may be a social solution. I think BG is trying to say "technology" can solve everything.

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