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Why I’m Going to India

thegatesnotes.com

61–70 of 116 posts

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's a chance to help more lives elsewhere I think he should do it. Why should he limit himself to America? I don't really understand what you're trying to get at with this comment.

I just want to point out that there are very poor, desperately poor people in America, and that perhaps his statement "But we don’t have everyday experience with the problems of the poorest. We don’t see people living in extreme poverty next door or pass by them in a slum down the street. " might lead some to think otherwise. Yes, there are worse places, and while I've never traveled to Mumbai, I do know people who l…

Chris, I've lived all around the world - I literally have not seen worse poverty than Indian slums (and yes, this includes multiple countries in Africa). From a marginal benefit perspective, the gains in India are enormous.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to point out that there are very poor, desperately poor people in America, and that perhaps his statement "But we don’t have everyday experience with the problems of the poorest. We don’t see people living in extreme poverty next door or pass by them in a slum down the street. " might lead some to think otherwise. Yes, there are worse places, and while I've never traveled to Mumbai, I do know people who l…

Chris, I've lived all around the world - I literally have not seen worse poverty than Indian slums (and yes, this includes multiple countries in Africa). From a marginal benefit perspective, the gains in India are enormous.

Ok, so what can he do? I mean, let's say he spends 10 billion dollars, on 100 million people. That would be $100 each. I don't suppose there is any way to insure that all these people get their $100, because of the problem of distribution, identity verification, etc. You can't mail them a check. You can't mail them cash. You can't trust local delivery men to do the job (they'll pocket it and say they delivered, or they'll get robbed). If you try to provide a service, you'll get knocked down by the bureaucracy. Look at the fiasco around providing identification cards for the poor (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_Identification_Authorit...). In my opinion, the best way to help the poor in India is to help India become a more prosperous nation, and as such, help the development of education, industry, public safety, environmental safety, research and development, and cultural identity within diversity. This is something the governments of India (national, state, and local) have generally pursued vigorously since independence more than 60 years ago. That the problem with poverty and illiteracy is still so pronounced only demonstrates the magnitude of the task.

Look what a long letter I write... I would suggest that the only way to help the people of the slums is for the rest of the people of India to want to help the people of the slums. There has to be a mindset that the majority of people in India adhere to, namely, that poverty is not acceptable, and that the factors that enhance poverty are to be remedied, even if this means pushing aside long-held traditions and ways of doing things.

Which is a tall order, even for Bill Gates.

So instead he goes after specific problems, such as polio, and it's all good, don't take me wrong, but, huh, it's not nearly as impressive in the grand scheme of things as it's made out to be.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#64
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A civilized society doesn't rely on the generosity of philanthropists in order to take care of the most vulnerable among us. We all pay taxes to keep the rats off sister Nell. How anyone (including the super-wealthy) choose to prioritize how they spend and give away their money, it absolutely is their choice. I personally think Bill Gates has done a better job than almost anyone.

"A civilized society doesn't rely on the generosity of philanthropists in order to take care of the most vulnerable among us." I don't understand this sort of logic. One of the hallmarks of civilization is people doing the right thing even when they aren't forced to. People marvel at the fact that you can lose your wallet in Japan and get it back without anything missing. Yet you're saying that using force to provide…

I would like the kind of society that doesn't need to use force (legitimized by democratically elected representatives, checks and balances, and the rule of law) to take care of the most vulnerable, but I have yet to see any precedent of that. You mention Japan, they have a very pervasive government social safety net.

Places without effective governments? Those are places where people do routinely die of hunger and treatable disease.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#65
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is facile to blame all of the developing world's problems on "the same deep-rooted culture/religion problem of ignorance, corruption, and generally not giving a shit about others." For starters, aren't there causes of ignorance, corruption, or not giving a shit about others?

> "For starters, aren't there causes of ignorance, corruption, or not giving a shit about others?" Not really. It's the default state of human kind. Individual rights, scientific enlightenment, and all that were invented by Europeans in the 1500s. Before that, all of human history is pretty brutal and poor.

These things are always local, there where social behaviour is rewarded with riches, and ignorance and corruption staved by judicial enforcement and education.

Not only in the 1500s, but also in the roman empire, the greek civilisation, the ancient arabian, egyptian, chinese, japanese, indian empires you can find evidence of civilisations that practised science, had fair laws and promoted kindness to one another.

That the Europeans receded into blunt stupidity for 1500 years does not mean that we were the first or the last to come out of it again.

edit: I also would like to point out that also after the 1500s European history is quite bloody and brutal.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#66

I'm seeing a lot of "What Mr. Gates is doing is great BUT [insert negatives]". Timing is everything. IMO, this is the perfect timing to start a mission such as the one Mr. Gates is. Why? Well having just been to India last year, my cousins were complaining about how India is filled with geniuses, yet very few who want to take risks (whether it be to help fix the poverty, the political system, or just start cool compa…

Bill gates can't fix

- apathy from upper/middle class towards lower classes

- willingness from normal citizens to live with human feces on the streets, eat in restaurants with huge garbage piles right in front

- spinelessness/cowardness from the voting public

so what if there are smart people in india? they are spineless/uncompassionate/unfeeling/unprideful.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#67
post #58
post #28

What's up with HN lately? It seems like being contrary to contrarian is the new thing these days. Bill Gates is someone I admired at first, because he built something huge from humble beginnings. Then I reviled him for the damage I saw him cause to the industry. Then I admired him again for the global effect he managed. He is a single person trying to do the best he knows how for humanity at large. If anyone thinks r…

He had a large enough trust fund to never need to work a day in his life, so I don't see where you get humble beginnings.

I think he was implying Gates building a large, successful corporation from humble beginnings (not his fortune/career/comfy life), which is something hard to do even with lots of disposable income and investors.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#68

I'm seeing a lot of "What Mr. Gates is doing is great BUT [insert negatives]". Timing is everything. IMO, this is the perfect timing to start a mission such as the one Mr. Gates is. Why? Well having just been to India last year, my cousins were complaining about how India is filled with geniuses, yet very few who want to take risks (whether it be to help fix the poverty, the political system, or just start cool compa…

Bill gates can't fix - apathy from upper/middle class towards lower classes - willingness from normal citizens to live with human feces on the streets, eat in restaurants with huge garbage piles right in front - spinelessness/cowardness from the voting public so what if there are smart people in india? they are spineless/uncompassionate/unfeeling/unprideful.

Update - Just realized I just fed a troll. Moving on!

Whoa! Hold on there cowboy!

What have we told you about sweeping generalizations??!!

Not every person in India wakes up every morning to fix social issues. They wake up every morning to go to work, feed their families and you know..do what you and I do - when we turn the other way to the glaring poverty and injustice that is visible in our communities.

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#69

I'm seeing a lot of "What Mr. Gates is doing is great BUT [insert negatives]". Timing is everything. IMO, this is the perfect timing to start a mission such as the one Mr. Gates is. Why? Well having just been to India last year, my cousins were complaining about how India is filled with geniuses, yet very few who want to take risks (whether it be to help fix the poverty, the political system, or just start cool compa…

Bill gates can't fix - apathy from upper/middle class towards lower classes - willingness from normal citizens to live with human feces on the streets, eat in restaurants with huge garbage piles right in front - spinelessness/cowardness from the voting public so what if there are smart people in india? they are spineless/uncompassionate/unfeeling/unprideful.

... because it is fun to paint everything with the same brush?

Re: Why I’m Going to India

#70

I'm seeing a lot of "What Mr. Gates is doing is great BUT [insert negatives]". Timing is everything. IMO, this is the perfect timing to start a mission such as the one Mr. Gates is. Why? Well having just been to India last year, my cousins were complaining about how India is filled with geniuses, yet very few who want to take risks (whether it be to help fix the poverty, the political system, or just start cool compa…

Bill gates can't fix - apathy from upper/middle class towards lower classes - willingness from normal citizens to live with human feces on the streets, eat in restaurants with huge garbage piles right in front - spinelessness/cowardness from the voting public so what if there are smart people in india? they are spineless/uncompassionate/unfeeling/unprideful.

India, Pessimism, Chailatte... jolly good combination. Spineless, apathy, unfeeling....it is like filling the keyword quota for a job description.

As if Bill Gates is there to fix all of your ruses with India. How about letting him do what he is there to achieve, follow his progress, build upon it and do something even better by involving next generation. Or another option is, sit and critique without adding any value? There are lessons to be learnt in any venture, and this will be no different. Relying upon Bill Gates and a time span of even 10 years to solve all those problems you listed? We are not helping the man who made computers ubiquitous and helped eradicate polio in India. Besides, Bill Gates will be heard by the people in upper echelons and young generation and Aamir Khan will help tap the mass population. I wish them luck, I will be following this social initiative closely. More power to them.

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