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The house I was born in sold for $4000

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Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#41

(This is more of a response to several of the comments posted so far.) I'd like to come to the defense of low-cost living but also acknowledge that (expensive) city living has its obvious pluses that people already in SV might be taking for granted. I created a low-cost living situation while living in a big (old/pretty) house in New Hampshire by renting out all of the rooms to friends. My rent is "free" and utilitie…

I think I've seen your posts on this topic here before. I actually lived in a shared housing situation in a large victorian mansion in Epping, NH in my 20s. I really enjoyed it. I wanted to do the same thing when I moved to Tahoe as the owner, but couldn't afford a house big enough to make it work out.

If I was in my 20s and working in an area as engineer with a reasonable cost of living, I would seriously consider this exact thing. When you are just out of school it is actually nice to be able to share a living space and it makes economic sense.

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#42
post #31

I'd really like to see a low-tax, low regulation part of the US (WA, NV, TX, or TN) where someone buys a few thousand acres and lets people build "temporary" structures (with power/fiber/wifi/etc.) for living and solo-working, combined with some more permanent structures for offices, meetings, socialization, etc. Essentially like a 2-5 year Burning Man encampment campus for various startup projects. If someone's "per…

I think you forgot a crucial bit of infrastructure that's a lot harder to slap together than power or internet: plumbing.

Or roads.

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#43
post #31

I'd really like to see a low-tax, low regulation part of the US (WA, NV, TX, or TN) where someone buys a few thousand acres and lets people build "temporary" structures (with power/fiber/wifi/etc.) for living and solo-working, combined with some more permanent structures for offices, meetings, socialization, etc. Essentially like a 2-5 year Burning Man encampment campus for various startup projects. If someone's "per…

Are you proposing we endorse a shantytown? History has shown us those go downhill fast, and I don't see how temporary shelters won't turn into a shantytown (and amusingly enough become permanent, much like every piece of shanty-code I write)

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#44
This is going to be an increasing issue and it's something that Western nations in particular just haven't had to deal with until now.

The West came out of Europe. Europe is small. To put it in perspective, the distance from SF to NYC is ~2900 miles. The distance from London to Baghdad is ~3100 miles. So abundance of land is not a problem the West has traditionally had (not until colonization anyway).

Added to this, mortality has been high but population growth has been higher. The last century saw a dramatic rise in life expectancy (primarily due to a drop in infant mortality). The last 50 years has seen a dramatic drop in population growth (the lesson seems to be that the natural reaction to uncertain times by people is to breed more).

So the West is being crushed by the weight of supporting an ageing population from a system established at a time retirement was a rarity.

Add to this to overall trend of the last century has been one of urbanization.

And just to put the nail in the coffin, low-tech manufacturing has largely fled the West for the developing world where labour is cheap.

Our entire society seems premised on both population and economic growth. What exactly do we do when the population starts shrinking? This is a bridge we haven't crossed yet.

The experience in parts of the US seem to indicate the transition won't be an easy one. Cities with negative population growth have suffered from appalling crime and poverty that seems much harder to flush out in a city full of vacant buildings.

The ongoing story of Detroit is nothing short of surreal. That's a city that is slowly being reclaimed by nature, which is really what should happen. Half-empty cities are not healthy cities.

Now add to this the whole concept of home ownership. Home ownership is aspirational. It's political goal. Home ownership comes with a huge cost however.

- The unlucky who buy in declining cities have a huge part of their wealth eroded leading to virtually impoverished retirement.

- It leads to an inflexible labour market (people are unwilling or unable to move to where the jobs are).

- It has a snowball effect, particularly in the US, where much of the funding for local infrastructure comes from property taxes.

I haven't been to upstate New York. I'm one of those living in NYC where half a million dollars for a studio doesn't seem that outrageous.

If there's one lesson from this is that everything is transitory. I believe one of the largest fallacies of the Twentieth Century was that the idea set in that everything was going to keep growing and keep getting better forever. The institutions you grew up with would last a life time.

Hell, this even applies to climate where we base our views on a ridiculously narrow band of Earth's or even human history.

Cities come. Cities go. Nations come. Nations go. To think that the USA or Europe will exist as they do today a thousand years from now is the height of hubris and/or naivete.

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#45
post #35

I'm from the same town, and now live in the Bay Area. I still can not get used to the housing prices here...which have been increasing recently: http://www.mercurynews.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay... When I visit my hometown, I feel like all the prices are in a different currency.

I didn't think there were many other people from Chautauqua county here.

I think the only time I have met anyone from Chautauqua county out here was when I went to see a Bills games at the Northstar Cafe in SF. When I was reading your blog post, I actually jumped a bit, because I thought I recognized the house (the red-brick street combined with the Bills banner is a familiar sight).

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#46

Homeowners of HN: how do you justify tying up a large percentage of your net worth in a home?

Because I need to live somewhere. It's tended to constrict certain decisions. But I have a nice spot on five acres in rural Mass. Will be paid off in the not distant future. And hasn't been a a particular drain on my other investments.

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#47
post #31

I'd really like to see a low-tax, low regulation part of the US (WA, NV, TX, or TN) where someone buys a few thousand acres and lets people build "temporary" structures (with power/fiber/wifi/etc.) for living and solo-working, combined with some more permanent structures for offices, meetings, socialization, etc. Essentially like a 2-5 year Burning Man encampment campus for various startup projects. If someone's "per…

Are you proposing we endorse a shantytown? History has shown us those go downhill fast, and I don't see how temporary shelters won't turn into a shantytown (and amusingly enough become permanent, much like every piece of shanty-code I write)

A shantytown full of rich (at least, in earning potential elsewhere) startup/burningman type people which grows around convenient fiber might be different than one full of labor surrounding a mine.

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#48
post #2

More startup needs to move to low cost areas.

It's better for well established players to move to low cost areas. Startups need to be in places where there is abundance of talent. Engineering salary are extremely high as-is, it would be nigh impossible to make them move to the middle of nowhere.

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#49
post #44

This is going to be an increasing issue and it's something that Western nations in particular just haven't had to deal with until now. The West came out of Europe. Europe is small. To put it in perspective, the distance from SF to NYC is ~2900 miles. The distance from London to Baghdad is ~3100 miles. So abundance of land is not a problem the West has traditionally had (not until colonization anyway). Added to this,…

I had to google it, might be useful for others:

2900 miles = 4667km

3100 miles = 4988km

Re: The house I was born in sold for $4000

#50
post #44

This is going to be an increasing issue and it's something that Western nations in particular just haven't had to deal with until now. The West came out of Europe. Europe is small. To put it in perspective, the distance from SF to NYC is ~2900 miles. The distance from London to Baghdad is ~3100 miles. So abundance of land is not a problem the West has traditionally had (not until colonization anyway). Added to this,…

> The unlucky who buy in declining cities have a huge part of their wealth eroded leading to virtually impoverished retirement.

This is where my fear of the downside comes from. My parents actually met in the 60s in LA, but decided to move back to WNY. I don't regret the fact that they did, but they had much different economic experience than they would have if they remained in California.

They now live on a property on about 5 acres. My Dad did much of the work on it, and it is beautiful place, but they will probably never get the money the put into out of it -- especially inflation adjusted.

If you end up on the downside of one of these economic decisions, it can really change your financial outlook for potentially the rest of your life.

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