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Sucks to be an old engineer

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Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#201

Post by UK-AL »

elhector wrote: post #34

One of the best engineers I have worked with is on his 60's. When I worked with him, the rest of the engineering team had an average age of 23 or so (me being 32), but this guy could give everyone a run for their money. This is not about age, but about staying current and sharp. Keep learning, and you won't have this issue. Sure, a guy fresh out of school has a ton of energy and works crazy hours, but as an Engineeri…

How can average age be 23? At 23 your still a new grad. The entire company was composed of new grads?

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#202

Post by UK-AL »

smcl wrote: post #92
gems wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would happen if you didn't remember your gpa? It is shocking that they would ask something like that though.

GPA seems to be an American thing. I graduated Uni in 2007 (in Scotland) and I've never been asked mine.

GPA is similar to degree class in the UK. I think the GPA system is better though.

Nearly every employer in the UK asks for your degree class.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#203

Post by ojbyrne »

cletus wrote: post #62

This post is touching on two issues that are somewhat related but different: 1. Finding ANY job when you're 60 is hard; 2. Engineers (who are still engineers) at 40+ will often be passed over in favour of twentysomethings. Engineering is such a young industry that I'm not sure we've really faced (1) yet (since the number of people who started engineering in the 70s is but a drop in the ocean compared to the number in…

It is an example of ageism to assume that "the older you get in general, the more non-work priorities you have." Basically that is what's implied by the "ism" part - assigning the characteristics that may be present in some members of a group to all members of that group.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#204

Post by DavidAdams »

pvnick wrote: post #56
DavidAdams wrote: post #43

I think that this article, though terse and generalistic, addresses a valid issue. However, I agree with many posters here in saying that it's not exclusively age that hampers older engineers, but an ossified skillset. Anyone who becomes entrenched in a nichey vocation then strikes out at 50+ to find new employment is going to suffer. The tech world worships youth and forgives hubris and foolishness, so it's especial…

>portly, bearded, late-fifties nudist Unix guy You had me until "nudist." Dare I ask?

I shit you not. He was a bona-fide nudist, though he preferred the term "naturist." And yes, he worked from home four days per week. He put some sweats and a t-shirt on when he came into the office, but I'm sure he was going commando.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#205

Post by bdunbar »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #132
WalterBright wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it an example of ageism if someone who is 45 can't find a job when what they know is Ada, Cobol and Forth? Um, I'm 54 and the languages of my 20's were C, C++, etc. I also fairly regularly get calls from recruiters. > So yes, you either need to find a job that doesn't change (eg a plumber or a teacher) or you need to constantly battle to maintain relevancy in a fast-changing industry or you need to become master…

Java is nearly 20 years old. Do people really think if you're 45 you worked in Cobol?

I am 46. I was trained - Marines - in COBOL.

Although after I left Quantico they put me in a billet working with dBase III, I could just as easily been assigned to a billet at a RASC where I would have been using COBOL.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#206

Post by nikatwork »

rbanffy wrote: post #183
waterlesscloud wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is nearly 20 years old. Do people really think if you're 45 you worked in Cobol?

Never worked with COBOL, but did a lot of FORTRAN 77 in school. Some days I feel like I'll code high-persistence phosphor simulation into Compiz...

It's OSX only, but this app should float your boat: http://www.secretgeometry.com/apps/cathode/

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#207

Post by DavidAdams »

Cushman wrote: post #165
pvnick wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>portly, bearded, late-fifties nudist Unix guy You had me until "nudist." Dare I ask?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nudist_on_the_Late_Shift (...and Other True Tales of Silicon Valley)

This was 1996, so I think my nudist predates Po Bronson's.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#208

Post by el_fuser »

_delirium wrote: post #89
rayiner wrote: post #6

This isn't really new, nor is it specific to software engineering. "Line engineers" have always had a very hard time with employment as they age (not that it doesn't happen). The usual ways to avoid this are (in order of risk): 1) Get your MBA and go into management; 2) Start or join a consultancy; 3) Start a company. My buddies in more traditional engineering fields (aerospace, chemical, etc) are all in the process…

Much of my family are in chemical engineering, petroleum engineering, and similar engineering fields, and from what I can tell just about the opposite is true. The companies would much rather hire someone back out of retirement as a consultant at 3x their previous salary, than train up someone younger. They'll hire someone younger, but seemingly as a last resort. This seems most true in a few specific fields (e.g. me…

My SO is a licensed engineer and there's little or no ageism there... Just as you report, they're valued even more as they age, even if they remain a line engineer.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#209

Post by mattdeboard »

michaelochurch wrote: post #194
mattdeboard wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You spend a lot of time -- "a lot" is a pretty big understatement based on your online activity, blog etc. -- thinking and writing about how miserable being employed at companies X and Y made you. I'm really curious why. I've been miserable in a series of jobs before and the last thing I want to do is go back and wallow in it.

The problem with the career/work game is that when you get robbed (a) it's considered to be your fault, and (b) you never get back the time lost. If there were a way to pop back into the state one should be at, at one's age, were it not for the robberies, then forgiveness would be possible. You'd just recover and forget. But this is a game where if you get screwed, your competition is out there getting better experie…

I don't really buy it, based on my personal experiences, which play out exactly opposite of what you're saying here. I think you're wrong. It's been very strange watching your evolution as an online persona.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#210

Post by mason55 »

vertis wrote: post #126
mason55 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny. One of my friends lost his job in a round of layoffs recently and was lamenting that his skills were based way too much on their internal technology for him to ever find another job. I walked through it with him and explained that you don't realize how much stuff is the same anywhere. Communicating with customers & stakeholders is the same anywhere. Working with your coworkers is the same anywhere. Managi…

Well? Don't leave us hanging, did he get another job?

The story is still being written... happened a week ago. I had the same feelings as him a few years ago though and I ended up getting tons of offers and finding an amazing job where I was promoted twice within a year.
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