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Getting a job in San Francisco

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Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#51

Post by mhurron »

S4M wrote: post #9
CoachRufus87 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government doesn't prevent you from giving actionable feedback to the person you didn't hire, it just gives the person you didn't hire the ability to sue you should you not hire them based on some criteria (race, sex, religion, or whatever their lawyer can argue).

I thought the real reason was that if you have a candidate that is, say, Black, and you tell him that you didn't hire him because you "felt that he didn't have enough knowledge of Ruby", he would be able to sue you if he found out you hired someone who supposedly has the same level of knowledge of ruby as him.

> "felt that he didn't have enough knowledge of Ruby", he would be able to sue you if he found out you hired someone who supposedly has the same level of knowledge of ruby as him.

Except that you felt it because the other candidate interviewed and sold himself better.

The way it is being presented here you could always sue if you're black and the person they hired wasn't. It doesn't really work that way. They do have to provide proof of their claim of racism/sexism or whatnot. They didn't hire me isn't proof.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#52

Post by danielharan »

fabienpenso wrote: post #26
thedjpetersen wrote: post #4

Would love to also see a follow-up piece about getting a job in Paris

Well there is a huge difference. As a Software Engineer you want to work in San Francisco because it's where your job happens. In Paris, nothing happens on that level. If you do want to come to Paris it's because of the amazing food, lifestyle, public transportation system, and certainly not because of the amazing startups we should have.

I'd say that in Paris, a referral is necessary and often sufficient. Le "piston".

In SF, it's often necessary and hardly ever sufficient.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#53

Post by mik3y »

danbmil99 wrote: post #48

> But being rejected by a team because you’re not a fit doesn’t mean you can’t try another within the same company, if the company is big enough (Apple, Google, etc). Google's teams don't hire; Google hires (teams aren't even able to influence the process, by design) -- then you get placed on a team.

> Google's teams don't hire; Google hires (teams aren't even able to influence the process, by design)

Not quite.

While the generic SWE / new grad process is close to what you describe, individual teams and managers regularly exert a non-zero amount of influence: in screening and routing candidates, recommending the interview slate, getting the packet to hiring committee, and bidding on a candidate once an offer is made.

It's also common for more specialized groups (such as Platforms) to have their own HC.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#54

Post by greghinch »

"French will note US companies don’t pay much tax on salaries like they do in France, what could make you think is a lot of money isn’t. Your French salary costs 40% extra to your company, but not in San Francisco."

Not really the case. Taxes + benefits can easily add up to that much. General rule is it costs 150% of a salary to employ someone in the US. Much of what might be lumped into taxes in other countries is just paid for separately (such as healthcare), but the overall cost of the employee sounds like its about equal.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#55

Post by cxx »

fabienpenso wrote: post #33
cxx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not only in France, it's in all Europe. Salaries in Germany, The Netherlands, UK and so on are much much lower than in SF or NY. Developer jobs that pay more than 60k euro are few and far between. A 50k+ job is already above average and upgrading is not going to be easy.

The difference is, Europe see developers as commodities. They don't care, they don't need them as much as they do in San Francisco. San Francisco see developers as the only way to achieve their project they just raised 10 millions for. You're gold to them, they accept to pay a higher price. In Europe most young developers want to be Product Manager (or any Manager positions), most developers in SF don't care about th…

Absolutely, I completely agree with those things. I don't think devs here want to go into some kind of management position because they're not having fun in a technical job. It's because technical jobs in Europe are a dead end. You can make a living (just pray you don't get fired after your 50s), but anyone with a bit of ambition can see that it's just not worth it in the long run. Why stay as a developer when you can go into a cushy management or presales position that pays easily over 100k?

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#56

Post by fabienpenso »

danielharan wrote: post #52
fabienpenso wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there is a huge difference. As a Software Engineer you want to work in San Francisco because it's where your job happens. In Paris, nothing happens on that level. If you do want to come to Paris it's because of the amazing food, lifestyle, public transportation system, and certainly not because of the amazing startups we should have.

I'd say that in Paris, a referral is necessary and often sufficient. Le "piston". In SF, it's often necessary and hardly ever sufficient.

> I'd say that in Paris, a referral is necessary and often sufficient. Le "piston".

+1.

I think it's a core deep cultural issue about France. The whole system is completely corrupted, people are used to get "passe-droit" (not sure about the translation) for anything, and even the top Political leaders are acting this way. Politician asking cops not to be fined for something illegal they just did, a friend of a friend asking the School President to let their kid attend their school, etc.

The whole French society is based on this. Many say it's a Monarchy, and not a Republic.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#57

Post by thibaut_barrere »

Gepsens wrote: post #49
jmduke wrote: post #15

To be honest, this makes me want to get a job in Paris. The way Fabien describes SF as a Mecca evokes the sense of wonder Woody Allen had about the City of Love: You know, I sometimes think, how is anyone ever gonna come up with a book, or a painting, or a symphony, or a sculpture that can compete with a great city. You can't. Because you look around and every street, every boulevard, is its own special art form and…

If you can work remomtely, sure. Because those interesting projects will certainly not be in Paris.

I've been working remotely for the last 3 years, working 100% on interesting, Paris-based projects. Just adding a data point!

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#58

Post by cxx »

seivan wrote: post #47
fabienpenso wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, Europe see developers as commodities. They don't care, they don't need them as much as they do in San Francisco. San Francisco see developers as the only way to achieve their project they just raised 10 millions for. You're gold to them, they accept to pay a higher price. In Europe most young developers want to be Product Manager (or any Manager positions), most developers in SF don't care about th…

Exactly This. MBA's aren't a joke in EU. They are actually taken seriously..

They aren't a joke in the US or the rest of the world either. It's only in certain circles that they're not valued. There's plenty of companies where an MBA from a well-known university is a passport stamp (and prerequisite) to a high paying job.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#59

Post by cxx »

JoeKM wrote: post #41
alloftheabove wrote: post #25

Where do these salary numbers come from?

I have to agree, 150k for senior engineer? I would say 100-120k for senior engineer, 75-100k for engineer, 50-60k for intern.

Is there only a 20% difference between someone with 5-10 years of experience and someone straight out of college??

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#60

Post by solarmist »

JoeKM wrote: post #41
alloftheabove wrote: post #25

Where do these salary numbers come from?

I have to agree, 150k for senior engineer? I would say 100-120k for senior engineer, 75-100k for engineer, 50-60k for intern.

I'm in my first midlevel engineering position and including my year end bonus I make about 125k and this was the salary they offered me. My asking price was below what they offered.
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