Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ubuntu 9.04 released

ubuntu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 122 posts

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#71

Post by sant0sk1 »

halo wrote: post #45
dschobel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never met someone who used any version of windows because they thought it was a reasonable way to interface with your computer, always for application compatibility.

I do. I like Windows a lot. I'm completely platform agnostic and I've used all 3 major platforms at various times but I always come back to Windows. I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows but they don't tend to talk about it, whereas you do tend to get a lot of outspoken Mac and Linux users who are willing to both champion their platform as well as bash Windows at an…

> I'm completely platform agnostic

That means you don't know anything about platforms (agnostic = no (a) knowledge (gnosis)).

I think you meant: indifferent =)

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#73

Post by old-gregg »

rcoder wrote: post #52
old-gregg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens because of underlying implementation of file systems. UNIX-based systems have the notion of "linking/unlinking" files: a file is a link to a set of sectors on your hard drive. One can create many more links to the same data (using ln command). Deleting is the same as unlinking, i.e. removing a link. When the last link disappears, the file is considered "deleted". When an application opens a file, it crea…

Honestly, the registry is no worse from an end-user POV than the /etc filesystem under Linux. In point of fact, given the diversity of file formats and sources in /etc, it's probably fair to say that the registry is equally navigable and understandable to the average Windows power user as the config tree is to a Linux fan. Because keys are typed and support ACLs, it's also arguably better-protected against accidental…

In my Linux days I'd just make a copy of /etc and my home directory and that was always enough to get a new machine, install Debian, run a few aptitude commands, restore /etc and move on.

Try doing it on Windows. There is always a small army of GUI tools, often from 3rd parties, to help you accomplish things like these. Just recently I had to get rid of Adobe CS3 on my Mac: it was easy enough - just run find | grep on your / and you're in good shape. On Windows, big part of the game is played in the registry, and good luck cleaning it up from something as massive and badly written as Adobe software.

Ask an average Microsoft SQL Server user: "WHAT IS MS SQL SERVER?" I mean in terms of files and configuration data that you're putting on your machine when you're installing one. I bet very few people know precisely what it is. MS SQL, just like any piece of reasonably big Windows software, is a complex mesh of files scattered all over your hard drive, hooked up together with a few hundred registry entries scattered all over your registry, and replicating your SQL configuration on another machine is pretty much impossible without yet another complex Windows GUI tool. Internet Explorer is also like that: there are all sorts of hooks and back doors in the registry that you can stick your DLL into, to be loaded and considered a part of MSIE the browser, so an average user, without additional GUI guidance, has no chance of figuring out where all these popups are coming from, hence the need (and a big market) of various spyware/adware removal tools. On Linux/Mac these tools make no sense: a 10 line bash script would accomplish all they do. The reason? It's the registry, the biggest engineering fuck up in the history of Windows.

This is why I hate seeing Gnome moving in that direction - their Gnome Conf is a reincarnation of the same "wonderful" idea: to badly re-implement a file system in sake of elusive "centralized configuration storage" advantage. There isn't any advantage in centralizing your config in some non-standard complex format: you aren't gaining anything, you're loosing a huge army of tools and techniques and people's knowledge which standard file systems come with: just use them, store you config files as files in a file system, it's freaking great at storing files.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#74

Post by LogicHoleFlaw »

mkuhn wrote: post #37
quisxt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you don't need to install anything. Dust is one of the default themes now :)

Ah, cool, didn't know that. This definitely is an advance :-)

I'm using "New Wave" theme which has a very pleasant muted gray and black look to it. It's very easy on my eyes.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#75

Post by [deleted] »

derwiki wrote: post #58
access_denied wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a big majority of computer users, quietly suffering under Windows and simply having no idea that there even exists an alternative.

I installed Ubuntu on a laptop I gave to my father a few weeks ago, and he's been using it exclusively. I don't think he can tell the difference between Ubuntu and Windows.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#76

Post by jodrellblank »

quoderat wrote: post #55
jodrellblank wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled

Problem is, it doesn't work right: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265

And if I picked a Linux distro from 8 years ago I'd find some bugs in it too. Use the current version of Windows, it has fewer bugs.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#77

Post by RossM »

mseebach wrote: post #50
halo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. I like Windows a lot. I'm completely platform agnostic and I've used all 3 major platforms at various times but I always come back to Windows. I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows but they don't tend to talk about it, whereas you do tend to get a lot of outspoken Mac and Linux users who are willing to both champion their platform as well as bash Windows at an…

> I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows I think there's a quiet majority out there who's never tried anything but Windows, and think of their computer as nothing more than a tool, completely oblivious to such abstractions as operating systems.

I've used Windows pretty much all my life, but started out with Linux (Ubuntu, briefly openSUSe and back to Ubuntu again) a couple of months back.

I don't see many problems with Windows apart from it doesn't like moving User documents/data to another drive. The resulting clutter from that is all down to me though. I haven't had an complaints with Vista.

I'm warming more to Ubuntu now (although I only use it as a development platform on a laptop, I'd probably prefer it even more on the desktop) but I really don't see the "horrors" in Windows.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#78

Post by prewett »

rcoder wrote: post #52
old-gregg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens because of underlying implementation of file systems. UNIX-based systems have the notion of "linking/unlinking" files: a file is a link to a set of sectors on your hard drive. One can create many more links to the same data (using ln command). Deleting is the same as unlinking, i.e. removing a link. When the last link disappears, the file is considered "deleted". When an application opens a file, it crea…

Honestly, the registry is no worse from an end-user POV than the /etc filesystem under Linux. In point of fact, given the diversity of file formats and sources in /etc, it's probably fair to say that the registry is equally navigable and understandable to the average Windows power user as the config tree is to a Linux fan. Because keys are typed and support ACLs, it's also arguably better-protected against accidental…

The main reason I hate the registry and much prefer /etc is that I can do `tar -czf backup.tar.gz /etc/*` and have a backup. I can also fix my machine if things are so bad I have to boot into single user mode. Scripts can easily look at system settings. On the plus side, the registry is more consistent; you don't have to figure out each program's config language.

I think you can export pieces of the registry, and if Windows had better command line tools, scripts could easily look at settings. But as it is now, it's a lot easier to backup and restore /etc than the registry.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#79

Post by davidw »

twopoint718 wrote: post #8

Again, not an anti-MS person here, I support a large number of Windows clients, but it is not my OS of choice. Maybe there are user interface tweaks that one can perform on Windows (do tell) but I can never seem to get it as minimal as running something like fluxbox on Linux (to say nothing of ratpoison, stumpwm, or xmonad). My very unscientific poll of the computer support staff at my office shows that there is flux…

I have a list of stuff here:

http://www.welton.it/articles/windows_for_linux_users

Which, as the link suggests, is all about trying to make Windows tolerable for users of more advanced systems when said users are forced for whatever reason to hold their noses and use Windows.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#80

Post by LogicHoleFlaw »

quoderat wrote: post #2

I am not an anti-Microsoft person, but after having used Linux now without even Windows installed for two years straight, it is actually mentally painful to use Windows. Yeah, use whatever works best for you -- but using Windows these days feels like I'm on my Big Wheel when I was three years old. In a rubber room.

My preferred way to explain my stance on operating systems is thus: "I don't hate Microsoft. I love Linux."
Post reply on HN