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Ubuntu 9.04 released

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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#51

Post by access_denied »

mseebach wrote: post #50
halo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. I like Windows a lot. I'm completely platform agnostic and I've used all 3 major platforms at various times but I always come back to Windows. I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows but they don't tend to talk about it, whereas you do tend to get a lot of outspoken Mac and Linux users who are willing to both champion their platform as well as bash Windows at an…

> I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows I think there's a quiet majority out there who's never tried anything but Windows, and think of their computer as nothing more than a tool, completely oblivious to such abstractions as operating systems.

I think there's a big majority of computer users, quietly suffering under Windows and simply having no idea that there even exists an alternative.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#52

Post by rcoder »

old-gregg wrote: post #26
chancho wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows? In Linux (on the Mac too, I think) I can move, copy and delete files freely, regardless of what applications currently have that file open. On Windows, I always run into some situation where it won't let me do what I want to do because the file is open. So I have to hunt through 10-20 windows t…

This happens because of underlying implementation of file systems. UNIX-based systems have the notion of "linking/unlinking" files: a file is a link to a set of sectors on your hard drive. One can create many more links to the same data (using ln command). Deleting is the same as unlinking, i.e. removing a link. When the last link disappears, the file is considered "deleted". When an application opens a file, it crea…

Honestly, the registry is no worse from an end-user POV than the /etc filesystem under Linux. In point of fact, given the diversity of file formats and sources in /etc, it's probably fair to say that the registry is equally navigable and understandable to the average Windows power user as the config tree is to a Linux fan. Because keys are typed and support ACLs, it's also arguably better-protected against accidental or intentional breakage.

If you want to attack an ad-hoc config system, then perhaps talk about the mess that is OS X 'defaults', or GConf's half-assed reimplementation of the Windows registry for GNOME.

That being said, I am most certainly not a Windows partisan. The last time I worked primarily on a Windows system was when I worked for a large hardware manufacturer, and the entire company ran on Exchange + Office. That was over five years ago, and I have been almost 100% on Mac OS X + Linux in the meantime, with only occasional use of Windows in a VM to verify IE compatibility.

The reason is this: for the tools I need to be productive (Vim, Ruby, Java, Firefox, MySQL, IM client, email client) Windows is at best equally capable, and at worst a second-class host, to Linux. OS X is about as suitable a platform for those tools, but has a much smoother media (esp. online video) and mobile story. Hence, the advantages of Windows (huge application library, obscure HW compat) are largely moot, while its disadvantages (poor POSIX/UNIX compat., weird dev tools, cost) are more apparent.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#53

Post by jodrellblank »

quoderat wrote: post #21
jherdman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not just talking about the GUI though. He's talking about the actual usage of the machine. Personally I find Windows to be a complete pain to use. The console is weak, the way files are laid out on the system irritates me, and their politics as a whole stinks. To each their own, but I concur with the GP.

Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.

Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down:

  netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#54

Post by smanek »

jodrellblank wrote: post #53
quoderat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.

Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled

"sudo ifdown eth0"

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#55

Post by quoderat »

jodrellblank wrote: post #53
quoderat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.

Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled

Problem is, it doesn't work right:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#56

Post by pavelludiq »

I've been using the Kubuntu RC for a few days now. After the disappointment that kubuntu 8.04 was for me, im happy with this release. I've finally made the switch to KDE4, KDE3, you've served me well, but its time to go on, and KDE4 is finally good enough to not make me scream(as it used to do).

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#58

Post by derwiki »

access_denied wrote: post #51
mseebach wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows I think there's a quiet majority out there who's never tried anything but Windows, and think of their computer as nothing more than a tool, completely oblivious to such abstractions as operating systems.

I think there's a big majority of computer users, quietly suffering under Windows and simply having no idea that there even exists an alternative.

I installed Ubuntu on a laptop I gave to my father a few weeks ago, and he's been using it exclusively. I don't think he can tell the difference between Ubuntu and Windows.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#59

Post by anigbrowl »

briansmith wrote: post #39
old-gregg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens because of underlying implementation of file systems. UNIX-based systems have the notion of "linking/unlinking" files: a file is a link to a set of sectors on your hard drive. One can create many more links to the same data (using ln command). Deleting is the same as unlinking, i.e. removing a link. When the last link disappears, the file is considered "deleted". When an application opens a file, it crea…

Windows has had hard links for a decade or so. Vista even ships with "mklink" which can make three different kinds of links. Before that, you could download utilities to make them. Windows won't unlink a link that is in use because its normal filesystem API promises that behavior. You can use different APIs to get different behavior. The registry exists in the format it is in to boost performance, not hinder performa…

'Strue. I do get frustrated with the registry model, although I've gotten good at dealing with it. On the other hand, custom GUIs help to improve Linux penetration, since many people are intimidated the command line or configuration file editing.

I like Win and Linux, Mac seems to me to combine the worst of both. Sure, it's personal. Application compatibility matters, Linux lags badly on video & audio editing tools.

When I first ran Linux around 1993, what really annoyed me were Emacs & vi. Sure, they're powerful, but extremely alienating to new users. DOS had Edit, or Windows 3 had Notepad. Ubuntu and like distros succeed because most people just want to drive without learning how to be a mechanic. Linux's biggest problem is people's perception that there's no 'standard' distribution and that they're going to have do an awful lot of icky maintenance.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#60

Post by graywh »

rcoder wrote: post #52
old-gregg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens because of underlying implementation of file systems. UNIX-based systems have the notion of "linking/unlinking" files: a file is a link to a set of sectors on your hard drive. One can create many more links to the same data (using ln command). Deleting is the same as unlinking, i.e. removing a link. When the last link disappears, the file is considered "deleted". When an application opens a file, it crea…

Honestly, the registry is no worse from an end-user POV than the /etc filesystem under Linux. In point of fact, given the diversity of file formats and sources in /etc, it's probably fair to say that the registry is equally navigable and understandable to the average Windows power user as the config tree is to a Linux fan. Because keys are typed and support ACLs, it's also arguably better-protected against accidental…

The Windows registry also keeps the equivalent of many of the "dotfiles" in each user's home directory.
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