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Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

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Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#81

Post by FireBeyond »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #63
CJefferson wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is easy to see from the numbers that the vast majority of Kindle book readers use Apple devices." Out of interest, where are those numbers?

Is it so cynical to assume that Steve Jobs & the "analysts" he mentions were right–that not many Kindles have actually been sold? Sure, you're right, they've never given a sales figure. I think because they haven't sold very many. http://gizmodo.com/5963577/lets-just-assume-amazon-has-sold-...

Your supporting evidence for this opinion is a blog post that offers no evidence whatsoever?

Amazon does however publish Top 100s of categories, and the Kindle has been consistently high in the categories related to electronic entertainment.

Perhaps the claim is that Amazon manipulates that list, next...

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#82

Post by jonny_eh »

austenallred wrote: post #45
jonknee wrote: post #42

> Analysts estimate that Amazon has sold more than one million Kindles in 18+ months (Amazon has never said). We will sell more of our new devices than all of the Kindles ever sold during the first few weeks they are on sale. If you stick with just Amazon, Sony, etc., you will likely be sitting on the sidelines of the mainstream ebook revolution. Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuin…

Jobs could have set the price at whatever he wanted and they probably would have given in; Amazon was selling them for $9.99 and had already set the low bar, Jobs just had to pick his price and hold it. Classic negotiation says the other party will give in if he or she can so long as you hold your points as not for debate. Jobs did just that. Brilliant.

It all depends on either party's willingness to walk away. For Apple, books was just one small avenue for potential revenue, for the publishers it's their whole business. If Apple was missing a publisher on iBooks, they'd hardly care. If a book publisher can't get their authors' books on an iPad, those authors might go elsewhere.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#83

Post by makerops »

Erwin wrote: post #24
skw wrote: post #16

Do publishers and authors not looks at statistics? I'm sorry but ebooks aren't even close to the same value as print books. I have an idea of the production costs involved. Not to mention that with ebooks you're saving trees and reaching larger audiences. If the mobile app market shows us anything it's that micro-transactions are the way to go. Either sell your books for That or an unlimited book (library) subscripti…

My Kindle books hold higher value for me than physical hardcover books (and also cheaper comparing to buying an imported paperback let alone hardcover). There's convenience in getting the book you want at any time and not having to store them. Distribution is also far more efficient. Sentimental value of looking at the shelve and resale/lending are the only advantages physical books have. When I'm near Foyle's in Lon…

The preview book feature alone makes it 100 times more valuable than a traditional book imo.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#84

Post by meepmorp »

jonknee wrote: post #74
meepmorp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That would be interesting to witness. Apple's second trial their criminal behavior over eBooks would be a hoot. What criminal behavior would there be in this instance? It's their platform and they're not convicted monopolists, so they can set their pricing however they like. If Amazon doesn't like it, they can take their ball and go home (and likely get Apple to cave, cause people seem to prefer Kindle to iBooks).…

Well for starters since Amazon does not sell anything through Apple's platform (and indeed removed that ability because of Apple's new rules requiring a 30% cut), there would be no setting of pricing. You're suggesting that Apple would somehow require Amazon to fork over 30% of every Kindle book sold as long as the purchaser has downloaded the Kindle for iOS app. That would be quite anti-competitive and would introdu…

> Well for starters since Amazon does not sell anything through Apple's platform (and indeed removed that ability because of Apple's new rules requiring a 30% cut), there would be no setting of pricing.

It would be setting pricing for the opportunity to make use of Apple's platform.

> You're suggesting that Apple would somehow require Amazon to fork over 30% of every Kindle book sold as long as the purchaser has downloaded the Kindle for iOS app. That would be quite anti-competitive and would introduce a whole host of troubles over their approval process (they would also have to take 30% of HBO's revenue or kick out HBO Go, Watch ESPN would be gone, Netflix etc etc). Not to mention nearly impossible to audit.

You're conflating an impractical suggestion with an illegal one here. It's a patently unworkable idea if the vendor in question doesn't use Apple's APIs for transaction processing, and it'd be stupid and tone deaf and a bad deal for their customers. But that's got nothing at all to do with legality.

Speaking of legality, would such a hypothetical move on Apple's part be illegal? Since Apple isn't a convicted monopolist, I don't think it is. And in this particular case, you'd have a difficult argument to make that Apple is meaningfully interfering with Amazon's ability to sell e-books, since they have (as you point out elsewhere in this thread) a booming business selling e-book readers, as well as content on other platforms (such as Android).

My post was merely questioning your assertion that instituting such a policy would be criminal behavior by Apple. So far, I don't see that it would be. Feel free to show me where I'm wrong.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#85

Post by brown9-2 »

greyboy wrote: post #21
larrys wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs most certainly sent the emails but we don't know who else was involved in drafting, wording, the tone, or strategy.

I agree - that didn't seem like the Jobs-esque writing I'm used to.

Well, most of the writing the public has seen from him in the past is not executive-to-executive emails.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#86

Post by peeters »

> Apple doesn’t want to make more than the slim profit margin it makes distributing music, movies, etc.

So given from what I've seen, that Apple takes 30-40% of each song sale, Steve is trying to say here that 30 cents per song sold barely covers Apple's costs? I have trouble believing that. I would imagine that many companies would kill for the profit margin Apple has on iTunes sales.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#87

Post by weixiyen »

austenallred wrote: post #45
jonknee wrote: post #42

> Analysts estimate that Amazon has sold more than one million Kindles in 18+ months (Amazon has never said). We will sell more of our new devices than all of the Kindles ever sold during the first few weeks they are on sale. If you stick with just Amazon, Sony, etc., you will likely be sitting on the sidelines of the mainstream ebook revolution. Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuin…

Jobs could have set the price at whatever he wanted and they probably would have given in; Amazon was selling them for $9.99 and had already set the low bar, Jobs just had to pick his price and hold it. Classic negotiation says the other party will give in if he or she can so long as you hold your points as not for debate. Jobs did just that. Brilliant.

Not hard to negotiate when you are in the driver's seat. The outcome was already decided before the negotiation even took place based on the given circumstances of both companies.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#88

Post by larrys »

ScottBurson wrote: post #75
larrys wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked the piece but my take is a bit different since I practically make a living by doing negotiations primarily by email. (Email is perfect it allows you to remove facial expressions and tone of voice which can be a drawback if not perfectly executed. Not to mention having to think on your feet and not be able to do what I describe below). One thing that I do do is to very very carefully choose my words and analyz…

Very interesting post. For most of us, I'm sure writing such an email would take the kind of effort and consideration you describe. (It would probably take me a week.) But I wouldn't be surprised if Jobs spent so much of his time negotiating and was so talented at it that he could pretty much just dash something like that off -- with every detail right.

Side suggestion for you. You are using bountyoss.com for what you do, I strongly suggest you lock up both bountyboss.com and bountyos.com as well. (bountybos.com and bontyos.com might also be a good idea but the other two definitely.)

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#89

Post by gfodor »

maxmcd wrote: post #40
gfodor wrote: post #30

The only lesson about negotiation here is that negotiation is easy when you have all the leverage.

Perceived leverage. HC would have been able to operate with greater flexibility without the deal and Amazon now has dominant market share. Jobs argues that Apple's digital subscribers are the important part of this deal when a very legitimate argument could be made (especially in retrospect) that Amazon's ownership of the book market, and book commerce traffic could help it's marketshare even more. The lesson is to c…

You didn't explain how HC had the leverage in this negotiation. Apple had already closed deals with a number of publishers. They were go for launch and it was inevitable that the overall market was going to ultimately decide if iBooks was a winner, not if HC's content was on board or not. If iBooks tanked after launch, it would almost certainly not have been due to HC not being on board, and if iBooks was successful, or at least was getting traction, HC would be groveling at Jobs's knees to participate with the stated terms, if not better ones. Essentially, Jobs saw HC's participation as a net positive for Apple, but only if they participated without altering any of Apple's terms. This mindset is exactly why Apple had the leverage: they could comfortably walk away, while HC saw themselves as potentially missing getting in on the ground floor of something that could kill their business if they weren't.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#90

Post by rmrfrmrf »

jonknee wrote: post #71
doctorpangloss wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it so cynical to assume that Steve Jobs & the "analysts" he mentions were right–that not many Kindles have actually been sold? Sure, you're right, they've never given a sales figure. I think because they haven't sold very many. http://gizmodo.com/5963577/lets-just-assume-amazon-has-sold-...

It's the top selling product on Amazon and has been so for years. They have sold a ton of them, it's ridiculous to think otherwise. Who do you think was buying all the Kindle books before there were other supported platforms? Amazon doesn't release sales figures. Period. Not of the Kindle and not of any product.

> [The Kindle is] the top selling product on Amazon

> Amazon doesn't release sales figures.

I'm not trying to step foot into this lose-lose debate, but you really can't say what has sold the most on Amazon without the release of sales figures. Amazon could easily be lying and none of us would know for certain.

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