Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#61

Post by CJefferson » Wed, May 22, 2013, 7:51 PM UTC

doctorpangloss wrote: post #56

jonknee wrote: post #42

> Analysts estimate that Amazon has sold more than one million Kindles in 18+ months (Amazon has never said). We will sell more of our new devices than all of the Kindles ever sold during the first few weeks they are on sale. If you stick with just Amazon, Sony, etc., you will likely be sitting on the sidelines of the mainstream ebook revolution. Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuin…

> Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuing to soar while Apple doesn't even mention iBooks anymore. That's true, but for a few idiosyncratic reasons, if anything. The Kindle app is available for the iPad, and for a period of time an iPad user could buy the book directly in the app. If Apple wanted to, it could coerce Amazon to pay 30%, regardless of where the books are sold. I wouldn't…

"It is easy to see from the numbers that the vast majority of Kindle book readers use Apple devices."

Out of interest, where are those numbers?

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#62

Post by fwonkas » Wed, May 22, 2013, 7:57 PM UTC

anonymous wrote: post #37

This part from Jobs's letter sounded strange to me: 3. Hold back your books from Amazon. Without a way for customers to buy your ebooks, they will steal them. This will be the start of piracy and once started there will be no stopping it. Publishers must realise that all books are already available in pirated variants, right? Their worst nightmare - everybody being able to download any book without paying them, is al…

I don't think that their worst nightmare is that everyone can download pirated copies — it's if everyone does.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#63

Post by doctorpangloss » Wed, May 22, 2013, 8:05 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #61

doctorpangloss wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuing to soar while Apple doesn't even mention iBooks anymore. That's true, but for a few idiosyncratic reasons, if anything. The Kindle app is available for the iPad, and for a period of time an iPad user could buy the book directly in the app. If Apple wanted to, it could coerce Amazon to pay 30%, regardless of where the books are sold. I wouldn't…

"It is easy to see from the numbers that the vast majority of Kindle book readers use Apple devices." Out of interest, where are those numbers?

Is it so cynical to assume that Steve Jobs & the "analysts" he mentions were right–that not many Kindles have actually been sold?

Sure, you're right, they've never given a sales figure.

I think because they haven't sold very many.

http://gizmodo.com/5963577/lets-just-assume-amazon-has-sold-...

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#64

Post by freyr » Wed, May 22, 2013, 8:05 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #11

It's impressive how dramatically wrong Steve Jobs was about the iPad when it came to the ebooks market. He missed by a mile in understanding exactly how customers wanted to consume ebooks. So here we are, Apple has sold a bazillion iPads, and yet Amazon dominates ebooks. And there's absolutely no threat on the horizon coming from Apple in the ebooks market.

Did Jobs actually expect the iPad to dominate the ebooks market?

I think he was determined to create the best iPad he could, not the best ebook reader. So his goal was to optimize the ebook experience for the iPad (not optimize the iPad for ebooks). And given that goal, he negotiated a good deal.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#65

Post by jonknee » Wed, May 22, 2013, 8:05 PM UTC

doctorpangloss wrote: post #56

jonknee wrote: post #42

> Analysts estimate that Amazon has sold more than one million Kindles in 18+ months (Amazon has never said). We will sell more of our new devices than all of the Kindles ever sold during the first few weeks they are on sale. If you stick with just Amazon, Sony, etc., you will likely be sitting on the sidelines of the mainstream ebook revolution. Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuin…

> Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuing to soar while Apple doesn't even mention iBooks anymore. That's true, but for a few idiosyncratic reasons, if anything. The Kindle app is available for the iPad, and for a period of time an iPad user could buy the book directly in the app. If Apple wanted to, it could coerce Amazon to pay 30%, regardless of where the books are sold. I wouldn't…

> If Apple wanted to, it could coerce Amazon to pay 30%, regardless of where the books are sold.

That would be interesting to witness. Apple's second trial over their criminal behavior over eBooks would be a hoot.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#66

Post by smallegan » Wed, May 22, 2013, 8:07 PM UTC

felipeko wrote: post #29

smallegan wrote: post #17

I guess it is the capitalist in me that doesn't really get what Apple was doing wrong by trying to set higher eBook prices with the major publishers.

I don't think there's a problem with Apple selling for eBooks more on their store. The problem is they forced everybody to sell for more on other stores.

They didn't really force them to, they said if you want to be in our store, you can't charge less elsewhere. The publishers all could have said no, right?

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#67

Post by bravura » Wed, May 22, 2013, 8:08 PM UTC

Is it just me, or does the following quote suggest that Harper-Collins was strongly outleveraged in the negotiation, regardless of Jobs's negotiating skill?

"Apple is the only other company currently capable of making a serious impact, and we have 4 of the 6 big publishers signed up already. Once we open things up for the second tier of publishers, we will have plenty of books to offer. We’d love to have HC among them."

If Harper-Collins was a "second-tier" publisher, and 4 of the 6 biggest publishers already agreed to these terms, did Harper-Collins really have much wiggle room?

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#68

Post by jonknee » Wed, May 22, 2013, 8:09 PM UTC

fragsworth wrote: post #46

adventured wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) No, because Amazon does not always pay $13 wholesale, and they do not always sell for $9.99. There has never been a segment wide set figure on either.

So was Steve just making shit up? i.e., he won the negotiation because he was so full of shit that they didn't see any way to talk sense into him?

I guess you're right if by "winning" you mean signing a deal and then having a criminal investigation into his behavior. I'd wager that no one won (customers lost, the publishers didn't make any more money and now Apple is stuck in a legal battle that all the counter parties have paid their way out of).

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#69

Post by meepmorp » Wed, May 22, 2013, 8:11 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #65

doctorpangloss wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuing to soar while Apple doesn't even mention iBooks anymore. That's true, but for a few idiosyncratic reasons, if anything. The Kindle app is available for the iPad, and for a period of time an iPad user could buy the book directly in the app. If Apple wanted to, it could coerce Amazon to pay 30%, regardless of where the books are sold. I wouldn't…

> If Apple wanted to, it could coerce Amazon to pay 30%, regardless of where the books are sold. That would be interesting to witness. Apple's second trial over their criminal behavior over eBooks would be a hoot.

> That would be interesting to witness. Apple's second trial their criminal behavior over eBooks would be a hoot.

What criminal behavior would there be in this instance? It's their platform and they're not convicted monopolists, so they can set their pricing however they like. If Amazon doesn't like it, they can take their ball and go home (and likely get Apple to cave, cause people seem to prefer Kindle to iBooks).

This is called capitalism.

Re: Steve Jobs emails that show how to win a negotiation

#70

Post by gtaylor » Wed, May 22, 2013, 8:13 PM UTC

notimetorelax wrote: post #58

doctorpangloss wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hindsight is a funny thing. Amazon's eBook/Kindle business is continuing to soar while Apple doesn't even mention iBooks anymore. That's true, but for a few idiosyncratic reasons, if anything. The Kindle app is available for the iPad, and for a period of time an iPad user could buy the book directly in the app. If Apple wanted to, it could coerce Amazon to pay 30%, regardless of where the books are sold. I wouldn't…

> I suspect Amazon makes most of its money off iPad users Just wondering, why do you think that?

yeah, I love reading on my Kindle. It's much cheaper, the battery lasts forever, I can buy stuff off of Whispernet without paying a monthly fee, it's easier on my eyes, and I can read it in bright sunlight.

Anecdotal on both accounts...