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The Great Google Goat Rodeo

blog.markwunsch.com

31–40 of 52 posts

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#31
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Editing takes place before publishing, not after. A newspaper that prints a dozen retractions per day is not well edited.

A fair point, but as they learn to edit, they can't leave what they consider to be unsuccessful products in place either. Unlike publishing, product development isn't static.

It's a hard problem for them. In traditional industries there's some natural protection from the problems that google encounters with product management.

It would take Samsung forever to start up a factory to make a new kind of washing machine, for example. If the new washing machines don't sell, Samsung could discontinue the product line without pissing off very many customers because all of the washing machines they already sold would continue working.

Google has the opposite problem where it's easy to start a new product but discontinuing even a minor product pisses off thousands of people. If they cared about customer happiness and trust, they'd get better at choosing products to release and they'd move more quickly to killing off unsuccessful ones. (Honestly, I'm not sure they care about customers enough to change. They may place more value on flexibility than they do on customer happiness and trust.)

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then I certainly hope that "Plus" will be recognized as a failure sooner rather than later, because as TFA states that crap is getting spread over all the good stuff Google does. When normal people start using other search engines and maps to avoid the Plus hassles, Google should know they are damaging the franchise.

What exactly are these "Plus hassles" you refer to?

In my own direct experience Plus business pages just flat out don't work most of the time. Our business moved back in February and I went to change the address on our Plus account since that's now what appears in search results (it seems to override whatever is in Google Places). I've been locked out of the account ever since with an error 500 and the address in search results is still the old one. Zero help in any form from Google via the product support forum.

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#33

Google doesn't force you to use Google+ as a social network, it forces you to create a profile so it can unify identity across Google accounts.

Disclaimer: I work for the big G

Exactly. Google needs a way to identify and canonicalize people and organizations. I think they've tried various automated and smart techniques to limited success, and it's much easier to say that if you create a profile so that you tell us what your identity is and what your websites are, then we can attribute your work in searches much better. You don't ever have to use G+ the web site after that.

I think that there's a basic misunderstanding of what G+ is, even inside Google, and it's our fault for not making it more clear. Maybe things needed different names.

Google+ is really three main things:

At it's core G+ is an identity service. It knows who you are because you have a profile. Authorship requires this I guess.

Then it's a sharing service. Google needed a way to enable sharing in all it's products.

Finally, it's a web site with a social stream.

It's possible they should have stuck with "Google Profile" for the first part, and then the author might not be so upset that Google needs some information to attribute correctly.

Also, it'd be ideal if there were standards for these things. Google definitely used to go more that route, like Open Social, but those attempts failed against proprietary systems like Facebook. I think things are just moving to fast right now for the slow process of standardization to be competitive. I hope that when certain _features_ of identity, sharing, messaging, etc. standardize again, then new protocols can be standardized around those features. New XMPP extensions, or an entirely new protocol, to support the features of Hangouts would be great for example. A system for securely asserting identity and profile information (not log-ins) in the way that people use Twitter, Facebook and G+ would be wonderful too.

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#34

I agree: it's anticompetitive to give increased search prominence to sites willing to link to a Google+ profile.

What's the alternative? It's not like FB is going to open up their social graph data so Google can use it to improve search results. I believe that issue was discussed when G+ results first showed up in search. For what it's worth, Facebook is also out there trying to compete on search using its social graph information, which is what the recent Zuckerberg announcements talked about.

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#35

I agree: it's anticompetitive to give increased search prominence to sites willing to link to a Google+ profile.

Oh, so this is about a "Gilt" employee being peeved about the presentation featuring the "Google+ Sign In" integration with "Fancy"(a competitor?)?

Well no, it's not anti competitive because when a user logs into a service she implicitly expresses interest in it, making it more relevant to her in a search scenario, and since it's personalised that "prominence" is unique to said user.

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#36
post #9
post #4

"Their design ability might be improving, but again and again they show a lack of editing — they lack the ability to be selective about their product portfolio." This statement seems strange to me, being as the the prior paragraphs were about Google shuttering many of their products. Google may not have historically had great "editing" but they seem to be getting there. They're discontinuing products that they don't…

Editing takes place before publishing, not after. A newspaper that prints a dozen retractions per day is not well edited.

Two of the biggest data points for editing products - their popularity and growth rate - don't exist before you launch. I'm sure Google doesn't launch products it believes will be unpopular, so whatever launches and ends up unpopular, that data point was a surprise. It would be nice if you could tell which products will take off before you build them - it would save everyone a lot of trouble.

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#37
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I was NOT being sarcastic, sorry for not being clear on this. Most anti-Google articles that make it to HN are completely off-base, this one was quite rational.

Oh, well then, I totally disagree with you; I think the article was totally incoherent. But I don't downvote just for disagreement on HN.

His comment was not sarcastic and did add some value. The article didn't come off as incoherent to me, the author made a very clear point early in the article ("their products for users [the ones that collect information to inform advertising] are becoming confused, inarticulate, and increasingly malicious"), and he spent the rest of the article backing up the point.

I believe that as a googler you have an obligation to be somewhat objective when google comes up. Googlers have been accused in the past of coming into discussions about google and downvoting critical comments, and I believe that happened here. There are enough employees at google that it can really affect the ordering of comments in these threads.

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#38
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wants this? Are Google so hopeless in strategy that they have to borrow from Facebook?

Do you have a better solution for unifying identity across Google accounts? If your opinion is that separate products should have separate accounts and credentials then we will just have to agree to disagree. I can understand why that would be someone's preference, but I can't understand why someone would bash a company that has the desire to utilize a single profile/account for all of their products.

Many services do not require an "identity", and in fact are of less value when associated with an identity, or when using them while not so associated is more difficult. "Credentials" do not contribute to the act of reading a map. ("Location" might, but not in all circumstances, so that shouldn't be required either.)

I probably misunderstand you, but are you saying that a user should not let her own preferences guide her choices? If she is allowed that small concession, should she not share her preferences with others on HN? I'm not bashing Google, but I am bashing this "desire" that you've articulated more explicitly than most. This user doesn't want to use that sort of suite of services. That's one reason I'm not on Facebook. If there are important strategic reasons to ape Facebook in this fashion, I don't see them. If the reason is more a perception that they have to do something, that's sad.

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#39

Google doesn't force you to use Google+ as a social network, it forces you to create a profile so it can unify identity across Google accounts.

Disclaimer: I work for the big G Exactly. Google needs a way to identify and canonicalize people and organizations. I think they've tried various automated and smart techniques to limited success, and it's much easier to say that if you create a profile so that you tell us what your identity is and what your websites are, then we can attribute your work in searches much better. You don't ever have to use G+ the web s…

Feature request: Open up google search (API access). Create a marketplace around that index, that no one else on the planet has any hope of duplicating.

Re: The Great Google Goat Rodeo

#40

Google doesn't force you to use Google+ as a social network, it forces you to create a profile so it can unify identity across Google accounts.

Disclaimer: I work for the big G Exactly. Google needs a way to identify and canonicalize people and organizations. I think they've tried various automated and smart techniques to limited success, and it's much easier to say that if you create a profile so that you tell us what your identity is and what your websites are, then we can attribute your work in searches much better. You don't ever have to use G+ the web s…

> Google needs a way to identify and canonicalize people and organizations

No. Wants. Google wants to have a way to identify and canonicalize people and organizations. It is an understood desire. But it is not a need.

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