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Hacker News is depressing

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Re: Hacker News is depressing

#241

Post by krapp »

brymaster wrote: post #78
vxNsr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Communities like this are like water: it changes constantly sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. The only thing to be happy about is whether or not it's thriving. I agree but wouldn't it be nice if we could keep it changing for the better? EDIT: Sorry if I wasn't clear, some really good ideas have been presented here, I only posted the first couple ideas that came to mind, expecting all the other re…

> I agree but wouldn't it be nice if we could keep it changing for the better? Locking a forum down doesn't change anything. It seems like you're just wanting to censor dissent.

And of course, it wouldn't censor dissent, it would just prevent new people from dissenting.

Unless you follow it up with a constant shifting of the line in the sand between the "acceptable community" and "unacceptable community", perhaps by deleting the accounts of anyone as old as, or newer than, anyone within the circle who voices an unpopular enough opinion.

Or have every thread be invite only, or set to only allow posts within a karmic threshold of the op's or higher.

Or just pre-emptively hellban all new accounts, and retroactively hellban accounts made after whatever the arbitrary "True Hacker News User" line is, just to be on the safe side.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#242

Post by brudgers »

danilocampos wrote: post #230
brudgers wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say Paul Graham's opinion didn't matter. I said that congruence between it and yours would not make yours more interesting.

Why should being interesting be a primary goal?

If one is defending their writing as writing, then what else is there as far as the reader is concerned.

On the other hand if one is just kicking the dog, a blog might be more appropriate than HN given the scaffold of values Graham has said he wishes to establish. [Graham's opinions are interesting because they are enforceable].

That being said, the question of whether one should or should not work on Graham's scaffold is another question altogether about which diverse opinions share the common feature of uninterstingness.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#244

Post by MartinCron »

danilocampos wrote: post #88

As a top-voted dissenting opinion on Dave's piece yesterday, I find myself compelled to chime in. > I honestly don't care what the HN trolls, and the people who upvote them, supposedly "think" about me. If that's true, why 750 words on the subject? The issue I take with Dave Winer is that he seems to feel as though his accomplishments or contributions somehow elevate his words beyond criticism. I will say again what…

It feels like you're creating this false dichotomy between worship and destruction.

The fact that some other people on the Internet may afford Dave Winer more respect than you think he deserves is not a problem that needs to be solved. Even if it were a problem that needed to be solved, the "I'm gonna take him down a peg" approach creates an entirely new, bigger problem.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#246

Post by danilocampos »

brudgers wrote: post #242
danilocampos wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should being interesting be a primary goal?

If one is defending their writing as writing, then what else is there as far as the reader is concerned. On the other hand if one is just kicking the dog, a blog might be more appropriate than HN given the scaffold of values Graham has said he wishes to establish. [Graham's opinions are interesting because they are enforceable]. That being said, the question of whether one should or should not work on Graham's scaffo…

I guess that's fair. My impulses in writing are generally selfish, though – I write mostly to resolve questions or annoyances in my mind. But secondarily, yes, as an exercise to test my knack for persuasion, so your feedback on being interesting is well taken.

I positively relish your rhetorical style, by the way.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#247

Post by MartinCron »

larrys wrote: post #213
simonsarris wrote: post #25

This is curious, maybe a little too reactionary[1], but I think we could use the introspection. On the one hand, being argued about is a problem a lot of people would like to have. I spent two years making a large canvas diagramming library and I would have loved for it to have frontpage'd on HN, even if everyone just told me it was terrible. On the other hand, I do think the meanness of programming communities is a…

"I see people being horrible to confused newcomers, instead of steering them in the right direction." Side thought - this happens in many communities as an indoctrination ritual (people laughing making fun of the newbie). So I'm wonder what the basis of it is (rooted in survival or human nature?) because there must be one.

It's common to make inclusion into the tribe a difficult or expensive thing to do, so that you can more easily differentiate outsiders who may be a drain on your tribe's finite resources.

If you're curious about questions like this, Pinker's "How the Mind Works" is a very reasonable and readable take on evolutionary psychology.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#248

Post by danilocampos »

MartinCron wrote: post #235
danilocampos wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think he was nice to Marissa Mayer in his post?

Do you think that absolves you from being nice to him?

Absolutely. Live by the sword, etc. And I feel the same applies to me. I heard many candid responses. Didn't agree with all of them. Learned from some.

Which is the way it's supposed to work.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#249

Post by mnicole »

gwgarry wrote: post #147
moomin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sooner people understand that anti-social behaviour is about community and not about rights the better, but I still see people confusing the two. Yes you've got a right to be rude, you've also got a right to blather on for two hours about Dragonball Z. Both behaviours will leave adults concluding that you're not capable of mature discussion. And if you and your mates establish a norm of anti-social behaviour, you…

> The sooner people understand that anti-social behaviour is about community and not about rights the better "Anti-social" behavior according to whom and to what extent and for what purpose? For the purpose of feminizing men so that they are more passive and they fit better into your ideals of who people should be? So to fit men who want to be themselves into your little cult of civility? > I still see people confusi…

> For the purpose of feminizing men so that they are more passive and they fit better into your ideals of who people should be? So to fit men who want to be themselves into your little cult of civility?

Grow up.

> The point is to appeal to your group, not to appeal to all of society.

The point is your group is flawed, and that flaw legitimately keeps newcomers out and cause well-intentioned contributors to leave. There's absolutely no reason why the community should have the stance "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Competition is only going to make you better. Taking the time to help someone will also help you. Having the support of your peers for being courteous does far more for you in the long-run than intimidating them into submission does. But I guess that's "feminizing men" vs. holding them accountable as not only adults but as advocates and respectable members of the community.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#250

Post by DenisM »

gwgarry wrote: post #147
moomin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sooner people understand that anti-social behaviour is about community and not about rights the better, but I still see people confusing the two. Yes you've got a right to be rude, you've also got a right to blather on for two hours about Dragonball Z. Both behaviours will leave adults concluding that you're not capable of mature discussion. And if you and your mates establish a norm of anti-social behaviour, you…

> The sooner people understand that anti-social behaviour is about community and not about rights the better "Anti-social" behavior according to whom and to what extent and for what purpose? For the purpose of feminizing men so that they are more passive and they fit better into your ideals of who people should be? So to fit men who want to be themselves into your little cult of civility? > I still see people confusi…

Expletives were uncalled for, judging by your comment history you can do much better than that.
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