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NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

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Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#121

Post by w1ntermute »

nsxwolf wrote: post #117
w1ntermute wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could do it in exchange for charging an even higher rent?

Or maybe a share of the payment, and a more direct relationship with the security deposit. I was really trying to think of ways it affects me as a landlord and property owner. I really don't care what people do in the property as long as it's legal and causes no damage, but I want to be protected and considered as well. Right now we are just completely cut out of the entire process, and there's little incentive for u…

How exactly are you "cut out of the entire process"? It's your job to create a leasing agreement that maximizes your ROI. If you want to make money off Airbnb, then add a clause in your leases saying you get a cut of the profits.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#123

Post by hnal943 »

dreen wrote: post #105
Diamons wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When NYC residents tell you we don't want this and some startup founders in California tell you yes you do, that is elitist.

But then other New York residents agree with them by using their services and your point is moot because at the end of the day, you have no right to say they can't do that.

That's where your wrong and the purpose of this ruling is to clarify that.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#124

Post by nsxwolf »

nsxwolf wrote: post #117
w1ntermute wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could do it in exchange for charging an even higher rent?

Or maybe a share of the payment, and a more direct relationship with the security deposit. I was really trying to think of ways it affects me as a landlord and property owner. I really don't care what people do in the property as long as it's legal and causes no damage, but I want to be protected and considered as well. Right now we are just completely cut out of the entire process, and there's little incentive for u…

Responding to w1ntermute below: You're right, and that's what I had toyed with looking into. The problem is I use a boilerplate lease like most landlords - because it's been tested for years in "production" if you will.

You take a great risk in making even small modifications to existing language without a lawyer review. Writing all new language is even riskier and considerably more expensive.

Since I don't want to spend this money, my default position is I will simply reserve the right to crack down on any Airbnb activities I become aware of.

Airbnb could use their own lawyers to help out with this conundrum and gift the resulting work product to landlords.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#126

Post by JohnTHaller »

baddox wrote: post #109
cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

> You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. I would prefer that you could, in the (perhaps unlikely) scenario that it was allowed by the terms of your rental agreement. If it's your own property, go right ahead. > What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. Many residents would probably agree, and if enough agree, then there's no re…

Every lease I've seen of my group of friends prohibits subletting without express permission of the landlord/owner. It's already the standard in NYC. Realistically, every AirBNB within a rental unit in NYC is likely violating the terms of their lease.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#127

Post by nathanstitt »

baddox wrote: post #109
cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

> You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. I would prefer that you could, in the (perhaps unlikely) scenario that it was allowed by the terms of your rental agreement. If it's your own property, go right ahead. > What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. Many residents would probably agree, and if enough agree, then there's no re…

You cannot be serious. Just because you happen to own the property does not give you absolute rights. What you are arguing against is called zoning and the legality of that is very well settled.

The tannery example is pretty apt here - what right do you have to run a foul smelling eyesore right beside the property where I'm attempting to raise a family?

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#128

Post by tomjen3 »

Argorak wrote: post #64
greghinch wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean those laws shouldn't be challenged. Often they were put in place under different circumstances.

Could you please clarify which of those circumstances do not apply today? Especially the basic one that most housing space is intended for residency which, by its nature, is less lucrative then short-term renting? Quite on the contrary, in this case I think that the circumstances here are even pointing towards more regulation and AirBNB is accellerating that.

Well for one, Uber has had all kinds of problems being allowed to run taxies for hire in NY, and one of the complaints has been that they don't have a city certified taxi-meter installed.

That regulation might have made sense before GPS enabled smartphones -- especially when said GPS enabled smartphones are the only way to hail an Uber car.

I don't know the reason for banning unlicened hotels, but I imagine that at least one of the examples used were the safety of the cusomers -- that is kinda pointless given that the customer can check out the reviews on AirBNB before he decides to engage in business.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#129

Post by rayiner »

sliverstorm wrote: post #84
davidw wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term that's involved in this is "externality": costs that are imposed on people not involved in the actual transaction (use of the place for payment). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality You rightly point out, that, for instance, in a crowded apartment building, having something like a dynamite storage facility would probably be a bad idea. However, other things might be annoying too, such as having children…

Yeah, AirBnB basically seems to be an exercise in converting externalities into profit.

Much of what we consider to be profitable, high-growth business is about taking advantage of market failures. E.g. the advertising industry that bankrolls the internet is basically about taking advantage of cognitive biases to get people to make irrational purchasing decisions. Part of the success of e-commerce is due to the heroic efforts of UPS, etc, in reducing the cost of shipping over the years to make e-tailing cheaper than brick and mortar retailing, but a big part is also arbitraging on state sales tax laws.

This is not a moral judgment (I'm too old to make moral judgments). Fact is that purely competitive markets suck because there is no money in them (there's no high growth startups in the dairy industry, even with extensive government subsidies to offset the effects of vicious competition). A good fraction of the opportunities to make money are based on things like arbitraging regulations or exploiting market failures. Much of the rest involves focusing on markets with little competition (either because it's new or because others don't have the skills to target them), but I think people underestimate how much activity is in the former bucket. E.g. with AirBnB: are they in business because nobody thought to do what they're doing before, or because people thought about it before but realized it was illegal?

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#130

Post by darkarmani »

prawn wrote: post #35
darkarmani wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole sharing economy thing is unsafe, ridiculous, and kind of pathetic. How do New Yorkers win by having less choice?

Their neighbours are more likely to be people there for the long term and with an interest in the community, rather than just renting out their place to people a night at a time. I can see the negative side of AirBnB, though that said I just booked a place in Paris because every central hotel under $300/night appears to be booked for next week.

> Their neighbours are more likely to be people there for the long term and with an interest in the community, rather than just renting out their place to people a night at a time.

Of course that is true, but no they can no longer choose to live in places that allow AirBnBing their apartments. Your argument seems more applicable w/r/t contract law. If you don't want those kind of neighbors you can live in places that prohibit AirBnB.

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