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Welcome to Google Island

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Re: Welcome to Google Island

#51

Post by gaius »

abcd_f wrote: post #38
atirip wrote: post #31

But when Google Island is somewhere where are no laws, then anybody with enough muscle can take it away from poor Larry. And nothing Larry can do, because there are no laws. Taker keep.

Except that he's the only one with the root access.

Quite. In the Star Trek example, the Captain can say "Computer, locate X", and sometimes he says "Computer, deactivate X's devices" and the computer just does it. It's very unlikely, because he's an idealized fictional hero, that anyone with that kind of power in the real work, is as wise and benevolent as Picard - and even Picard makes mistakes.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#52

Post by prawks »

mindcrime wrote: post #25
ender7 wrote: post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

Every argument is trivial to win if you first convert your opponent into Mecha-Hitler. Not everything is an argument that needs to be "won" or "lost" though. Sometimes an article is just an article, that's meant to spark a discussion around a topic. Even if the article seems to overtly take a position, that's kind of irrelevant if you think that it's the resulting discussion that matters. Given some of the discussion…

> Even if the article seems to overtly take a position, that's kind of irrelevant if you think that it's the resulting discussion that matters.

I'm a big proponent of this notion. Often I'll quickly dismiss an idea I have because the discussion it created led to a much better one. However, my original idea was still crap. And saying in hindsight that I only offered it because of the discussion it would inevitably lead to is just... bad.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#53

Post by dragonwriter »

gaius wrote: post #46
tonfa wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google could definitly still sell ads (it doesn't need to give private data to third party to do that).

Sure. But if it did, it could sell more ads. Everything Google does is about ad sales. Self driving cars? What are you going to do when your car does the driving for you? Consume media of course, with ads all over it! Etc, etc. Which is not a good or a bad thing in and of itself, it's what they do, like McDonald's sell hamburgers. The question you must ask yourself is do you want Big Mac and Fries for every meal?

> Everything Google does is about ad sales.

Interesting contention.

Could you explain exactly how paid web services that do not embed advertising that Google provides (paid Google Apps, and backend services like App Engine, Computer Engine, Cloud SQL, Cloud Datastore, etc.) are "about ad sales" rather than about leveraging Google's core technical competencies in search, cloud storage, and web services to generate non-advertising revenue streams?

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#54

Post by gaius »

dragonwriter wrote: post #53
gaius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But if it did, it could sell more ads. Everything Google does is about ad sales. Self driving cars? What are you going to do when your car does the driving for you? Consume media of course, with ads all over it! Etc, etc. Which is not a good or a bad thing in and of itself, it's what they do, like McDonald's sell hamburgers. The question you must ask yourself is do you want Big Mac and Fries for every meal?

> Everything Google does is about ad sales. Interesting contention. Could you explain exactly how paid web services that do not embed advertising that Google provides (paid Google Apps, and backend services like App Engine, Computer Engine, Cloud SQL, Cloud Datastore, etc.) are "about ad sales" rather than about leveraging Google's core technical competencies in search, cloud storage, and web services to generate non…

Sure. These things are about getting new and interesting companies to build on Google's infrastructure. Then when the time comes to acquire them and monetize them through advertising, all the integration is already done.

Interestingly I signed up for the trial of Google App Engine. The only thing they wanted to approve me was for me to enter my GMail password. In other words, they'd already scanned my email and decided if I was a good candidate. Worrying, no?

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#55

Post by derekp7 »

tomkarlo wrote: post #42
derekp7 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really mind the personal data collection, except when the results are too obvious and exactly opposite of what I need. For example, after reading some articles on Social Security disability (and how some areas have as much as 25% of there population drawing it), I got curious and started doing some basic fact checking. Now, for the next several days, every web page I visit has a Binder & Binder ad on it. On t…

Folks in real life make judgements about you, and what you want, all the time in most cases it's entirely acceptable. Maybe it's disconcerting because online matches are often based on more tenuous information and less context. It can be ham-handed. As someone who has been harassed for urban photography, by law enforcement, I think that's a very different situation. Having someone in a position of authority mis-inter…

Yes, it is on a different level -- that was just the first example that popped in mind (and I hesitated posting it, worrying that I could offend someone else). But you have the same problem with any analogy; there are always differences between the two items being compared.

I think the problem for me is that I see it as a software bug, and since it is a bug that comes to light based on personal actions / data, it gets under my skin. Kind of like how Clippy got annoying back in the day. Or when Tivo makes inappropriate recommendations because you happened to watch a particular show (such as "My Tivo thinks I'm an 80-year-old retired grandmother").

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#56

Post by vilaro »

ender7 wrote: post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

The mention about not having a centralized datacenter is interesting, so here are my two cents. A decentralized datacenter could be modeled after the open-source model. The data would not belong to any one single entity, but would be able to be accessed by interested parties via an API. (How to enforce which "third parties" get access to this data is another interesting question.) The algorithms for fast, efficient access and retrieval would then be improved upon by the open-source community so everyone could benefit.

I like how search is becoming more contextual, but I don't feel comfortable when this data belongs to just one entity. My high school history teacher often used to say "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely", which is why I believe user data should somehow be decentralized. How to go about this is the million dollar question.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#57

Post by bjhoops1 »

stevenbedrick wrote: post #43
ender7 wrote: post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

> Keyword search isn't good enough anymore Citation needed. I'd actually be quite satisfied if the current state of the art for general-purpose web IR stayed about where it is now- it's pretty dang good! I can't remember the last time I needed to find something using text search and was unable to. And when Google folks talk about making search "better", what they seem to generally be talking about these days is makin…

I agree on "personalized" search. It can be handy (I search "Backbone" and get BackboneJS), but I worry that highly personalized search and content can lead to a feedback loop in which your pre-existing perceptions and biases are perpetually reaffirmed.

Imagine someone who takes Fox News and InfoWars seriously only being presented information from those sources. They could never escape!

Or take someone interested in mindless topics like celebrity gossip and whichever Kardashian has recently lost weight. A customized information feed will only enable them to fritter their life away in the pursuit of mindless, inane entertainment. They might come to think that these things actually constitute attention-worthy news!

Granted, these scenarios apply a bit more to customized news feeds like Yahoo homepages or Google News, but to some degree it applies to search as well. Sometimes I worry that I am already trapped in a closed information loop. Maybe the U.S. is an oppressive dictatorship and North Korea stands for freedom and innovation! I may never know.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#58

Post by derekp7 »

gaius wrote: post #49
derekp7 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really mind the personal data collection, except when the results are too obvious and exactly opposite of what I need. For example, after reading some articles on Social Security disability (and how some areas have as much as 25% of there population drawing it), I got curious and started doing some basic fact checking. Now, for the next several days, every web page I visit has a Binder & Binder ad on it. On t…

One day you'll make a claim on your health insurance, and having bought your search history, your provider will say "pre-existing condition, denied".

I really don't see that happening, unless it was done under the table. And even then, it would most likely be with lower-tier companies that believe they could fly under the radar and get away with it. Of course I'm a bit burned out on what-ifs and conspiracy theories in general.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#59

Post by dragonwriter »

gaius wrote: post #54
dragonwriter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything Google does is about ad sales. Interesting contention. Could you explain exactly how paid web services that do not embed advertising that Google provides (paid Google Apps, and backend services like App Engine, Computer Engine, Cloud SQL, Cloud Datastore, etc.) are "about ad sales" rather than about leveraging Google's core technical competencies in search, cloud storage, and web services to generate non…

Sure. These things are about getting new and interesting companies to build on Google's infrastructure. Then when the time comes to acquire them and monetize them through advertising, all the integration is already done. Interestingly I signed up for the trial of Google App Engine. The only thing they wanted to approve me was for me to enter my GMail password. In other words, they'd already scanned my email and decid…

> Sure. These things are about getting new and interesting companies to build on Google's infrastructure. Then when the time comes to acquire them and monetize them through advertising, all the integration is already done.

That seems to be a strained explanation, particularly in the case of paid Google Apps.

> Interestingly I signed up for the trial of Google App Engine. The only thing they wanted to approve me was for me to enter my GMail password. In other words, they'd already scanned my email and decided if I was a good candidate. Worrying, no?

The trial period for App Engine was, I think, limited for the purpose of controlling rate of growth on the platform until it was ready to be thrown wide open. I don't think there was evaluation involved at all, which is why they didn't need anything other than your login information.

When Google has rolled out products with limited previews with evaluation criteria, they've had applicants provide explanations of their intended use and other information.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#60

Post by ippisl »

ender7 wrote: post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

I think IBM watson is showing us that it's possible to build a great search engine with no privacy issues.
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