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Welcome to Google Island

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Re: Welcome to Google Island

#41
post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

I don't really mind the personal data collection, except when the results are too obvious and exactly opposite of what I need. For example, after reading some articles on Social Security disability (and how some areas have as much as 25% of there population drawing it), I got curious and started doing some basic fact checking. Now, for the next several days, every web page I visit has a Binder & Binder ad on it.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I have a hobby collecting and studying old slide rules -- including E6B "flight computer" circular slide rules. This included searching for, and reading up on the Breitling Navitimer watch, and similar watches. Well, now I get ads for various luxury watch brands (not interested in buying a luxury watch), along with Binder & Binder ads (not even close to disabled).

I'm still not quite sure why this annoys me so much. I think it is the idea that someone is making a judgement on me / what I want, based on certain actions that had a completely different purpose. Probably similar to how urban photographers feel practicing their hobby, and getting harassed as potential terrorists or something. Yes, this is a minor thing to nit pick, and it isn't a major deal, just a bit unsettling at times.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#42
post #41
post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

I don't really mind the personal data collection, except when the results are too obvious and exactly opposite of what I need. For example, after reading some articles on Social Security disability (and how some areas have as much as 25% of there population drawing it), I got curious and started doing some basic fact checking. Now, for the next several days, every web page I visit has a Binder & Binder ad on it. On t…

Folks in real life make judgements about you, and what you want, all the time in most cases it's entirely acceptable. Maybe it's disconcerting because online matches are often based on more tenuous information and less context. It can be ham-handed.

As someone who has been harassed for urban photography, by law enforcement, I think that's a very different situation. Having someone in a position of authority mis-interpret innocent actions is a much more threatening thing than someone doing it for commercial reasons. A vendor can bug you but they're not going to detain you based on their guess that you might be interested in what they're selling.

I raise this primarily because it seems like conflating an innocent mistake with overzealous / threatening law enforcement devalues the latter problem.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#43
post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

> Keyword search isn't good enough anymore

Citation needed.

I'd actually be quite satisfied if the current state of the art for general-purpose web IR stayed about where it is now- it's pretty dang good! I can't remember the last time I needed to find something using text search and was unable to. And when Google folks talk about making search "better", what they seem to generally be talking about these days is making it more "personalized", which strikes me as a questionable goal in terms of costs and benefits. Cost: living in an electronic panopticon the likes of which Orwell could never have envisioned, having my private information used as a raw material for somebody else's monetization strategy, etc. etc. Benefit: marginally better IR?

Note that I'm not writing this as some sort of technophobic Luddite- I'm actually an academic researcher who works on IR problems. I guess it's just that I, as a potential end user, don't see enough value in hyper-personalized search to be worth the inevitable tradeoffs in terms of privacy and information centralization.

Plus, I'm absolutely not anti-Google, or full of conspiracy theories, or anything like that- but I still find it more than a little creepy to think about just how much information they have about me. Just sayin', is all.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#44
post #23
post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

>The "Star Trek computer" interface that everyone wants can't function if it doesn't have a sense of the world and the person it's talking to. Sure it can, at least the sense of the person. I don't need your life story to know how to handle simple instructions like "what year was movie X released", or "Gimme a list of all the elements on the periodic table that contain the letter U in their names". Sure things like "…

"what year was movie X released" is an easy query to answer. It doesn't require much context, it doesn't need any information about the user, and movie release dates are widely available in many public sources.

But there's no reason that search engines should be limited to trivial searches of public data. A modern search engine needs to be able to handle situations like:

* User has a reservation at a local restaurant, so they ask [where's lunch] and want to receive the time and location of their reservation. And they want driving directions, unless they don't own a car, in which case they want directions from the nearest public transport.

* User just got back from Hawaii and wants to show their coworkers a photo they took of a cool wave. So they search for [wave picture] and want the picture they took to be in their search results.

* User is writing a PhD thesis on tree rings and found a useful article last month, but now they want to cite it and can't remember what it was called. So they search for [article about tree rings] and want that particular article to be the first result.

In other words, the 2001 model of a search engine as "grep for the web" is far behind what people expect in 2013.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#45
post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

> Keyword search isn't good enough anymore Citation needed. I'd actually be quite satisfied if the current state of the art for general-purpose web IR stayed about where it is now- it's pretty dang good! I can't remember the last time I needed to find something using text search and was unable to. And when Google folks talk about making search "better", what they seem to generally be talking about these days is makin…

Sometimes it's the technologists who are the most resistant to technological change. I sometimes get annoyed when Google displays results other than the 10 blue links, and tries to correct my searches when I'm searching for info on APIs, but I recognize that I'm in a minority and most people would benefit from more hand-holding.

Put another way, you may be comfortable enough with computers to remember what directory your files are in, and handling backups manually, and all that. But my mother, despite decades of my attempts to the contrary, is not and never will be. And far more people are like her than me (and, I suspect, you). I think this is what Larry Page is in part talking about when he invokes the idea of the 1-percent-of-what-we-could-be-doing.

Take a look at my colleague Sharon Vaknin's test of Google Now vs. Siri. They're both remarkably capable by the standards of even three years ago, but unlike Siri, Google understands context. "How tall is President Obama?" "By what margin was he reelected?" http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57584898-285/google-now-...

I'm echoing what ender7 wrote above, I think, but you can't have a useful conversation with 10 blue links.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#46
post #39
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because then you can't sell ads.

Google could definitly still sell ads (it doesn't need to give private data to third party to do that).

Sure. But if it did, it could sell more ads.

Everything Google does is about ad sales. Self driving cars? What are you going to do when your car does the driving for you? Consume media of course, with ads all over it! Etc, etc. Which is not a good or a bad thing in and of itself, it's what they do, like McDonald's sell hamburgers. The question you must ask yourself is do you want Big Mac and Fries for every meal?

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#47
It seems like I may have missed the point or that this struck a sensitive nerve for a few people but I just found it mildly funny. I'm not sure if the piece was supposed to be anything more than a bit of satire and a friendly jab at Google.

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#48
post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

The "Star Trek computer" interface that everyone wants can't function if it doesn't have a sense of the world and the person it's talking to. I would love it if there was a distributed way for people to provide this information without having it live in a centralized datacenter somewhere. That makes sense. Why can't we have both? If Google needs to store all my context data off in the cloud somewhere, why not absolut…

Google has done just that:

1. When DOJ sent Google a subpoena for search logs, Google fought it in court, while Microsoft, Yahoo, and AOL did not: http://news.cnet.com/FAQ-What-does-the-Google-subpoena-mean/...

2. Google is lobbying to change federal law to require search warrants backed by probable cause and signed by a judge for stored cloud email (and Google Drive, Dropbox, Flickr, etc.) files, a privacy protection opposed by the Obama DOJ: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20123710-281/google-facebo...

3. Google began requiring police to obtain search warrants for email after the Warshak decision nationally, even though it was binding only in a few states. So did (from memory) Facebook and Microsoft.

4. Google became the first tech company to disclose information about FBI warrantless data acquisition through NSLs in March, and in April became the first tech company to challenge their legality in court: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57572634-83/google-offers-d... http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57577958-38/google-fights-...

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#49
post #41
post #20

(disclaimer: I work for Google. My words are not theirs) At first I thought "oh. Google fan fiction. This is what we have come to." After a moment, though, I realized that this article isn't really any different from the other hyperventilating blog posts that have appeared all over HN recently. I'm not saying that these aren't important topics to discuss, but everything I've read recently has come off as a prurient p…

I don't really mind the personal data collection, except when the results are too obvious and exactly opposite of what I need. For example, after reading some articles on Social Security disability (and how some areas have as much as 25% of there population drawing it), I got curious and started doing some basic fact checking. Now, for the next several days, every web page I visit has a Binder & Binder ad on it. On t…

One day you'll make a claim on your health insurance, and having bought your search history, your provider will say "pre-existing condition, denied".

Re: Welcome to Google Island

#50
Ultimately, I think that this article fallaciously anthropomorphizes Google, and that is the reason why the situation it posits seems so scary.

Google is a machine, designed by people. It is true that they have lots and lots of data about individuals, but it is being handled by vast amounts of software and hardware alongside so much other data about so many things about people that there is somewhat of an anonymizing factor. If Google were an individual, what they do would certainly be creepy, but they are not. To put paranoia to rest, it might be in their favor to enact transparent safeguards of some sort that assure consumers that their data is in general not being accessed by Google employees or nefarious third parties (the most notable nefarious third party being, of course, the government).

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