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What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

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Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#171
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft actually did not want to open the .doc format. I believe they were forced to do it.

Who forced them? I can't find it on wikipedia, in a google search or microsoft's site all I found was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Open_Specification_Pr... I even checked the references, the MS page adds nothing to wikipedia's info in this matter http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifications/en/us/programs/o...

This was a result of the antitrust case sun and novell brought before the EU comission. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_compet...

It got us windows without media player (which nobody used), the browser ballot (which everyone endured) and a requirement that all their server protocols be documented sufficiently for competitors to implement the same service (which we all benefited from to a large degree). http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-04-70_en.htm?local...

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does Microsoft have an open messaging protocol that I don't know of? Even better, they support an standard called SIP. [1] > Or an open source operating system? Or an open source browser? They believe in open standards more than open source, although the Azure group very actively supports open source lately [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol

> Even better, they support an standard called SIP. [1] Not in Skype they don't

To be fair they bought skype and haven't really changed it. Which is actually an improvement over the previous company that kept removing things.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#176

Wait, so Google is dropping XMPP support because Outlook.com is supporting it to allow Gtalk users to chat on Outlook.com, so in order to perpetuate the GMail/GTalk lock-in by caging the Gtalk chat users to GMail, they're dropping standards support and killing access to all XMPP clients in existence including non-Microsoft ones? And they announce this right when Microsoft spent all the time and effort to allow Outloo…

I suspect the sudden change to XMPP was because Google was going to lose ad revenue because of Microsoft adding support for Gtalk in Outlook.com. Google is most effectient at showing relevant ads if they can track people across all their PCs and devices. Gmail is perhaps used as a "loss leader" to make people sign in into Google, so that cookies can be set and your search keywords and activities can be tracked across your home/work machines/laptop/desktop etc. No wonder the first page that Chrome shows is asing you to sign into Google.

Now, if people who use Gtalk to talk to their friends switch to Outlook.com but sign in to Gtalk there instead of into Gmail, Google cannot set a cookie for Google.com under your Google account, defeating the tracking needed to for proper monetization.

Solution? Hold users' social graph hostage and make it more difficult for them to switch by dropping XMPP support, the OSS clients be screwed. Instead of trying to lock-in people by holding their own data hostage in the GOOGOLCLOUD I wish they would just improve their offering compared to Outlook.com. The new compose in Gmail is atrocious while Outlook has a fresh new look.

Also, I have an unfounded suspicion that Andy Rubin might have been the "open" guy at Google and might have left or forced to leave a few months because all these changes don't come in a day(Andy was the guy behind the famous "open = build src" tweet, and now that Vic Gundotra has even more power, he's bound to do even more such things. See how Chromebooks are locked out, and flipping the developer switch is much more of a pain(flipping it erases the ROM and you need to press Ctrl-D or wait 30 seconds looking at scary warning every single time you boot in dev mode) than even turning off UEFI secure boot. They're closing the door behind them that they entered through, i.e through Chrome on Windows which is more "open" by comparison, making sure that Firefox and other browsers can't run on stock Chromebooks and keeping out all native apps except heavily sandboxed network apps.

Well, at least they are closed upfront about Chromebooks, instead of acting open and getting people's social graph into Gtalk and then locking it up in a proprietary protocol as hostage to artificially erect barriers prevent people switching away from Gmail. Atleast MSN, Yahoo, Skype were upfront they weren't really tolerant of third pary apps.

When Google killed reader and a lot of folks where whining about not trusting Google APIs, I thought there were just paranoid, but it looks like it's all slowly falling into place. Google isn't "open" anymore and they're coming really close to doing evil, if not already there.

As a side note, have you looked at Google VP's Vic Gundotra's profile? There might be a clue about where all these lock in tacting are coming from.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Gundotra

Vivek "Vic" Gundotra[1] is the Senior Vice President, Engineering for Google[2] and was previously the Senior Vice-President of Social Business for the same company. Before joining Google, he was a general manager at Microsoft.[3] He joined Microsoft in 1991 and eventually became General Manager of Platform Evangelism. His duties included promoting Microsoft's APIs and platforms to independent developers and helping to develop a strategy for Windows Live online services to compete with Google's web-based software applications.[4] Gundotra joined Google in June 2007, after taking a one-year delay working on charitable endeavors[which?] due to a Microsoft employee non-compete agreement.

His responsibilities as Vice-President of Engineering include Google's mobile phone applications, and its developer efforts, including OpenSocial, Google Gadgets, Google Gears, and the more than 40 product APIs Google exposes. It was reported on Gigaom that he is considered to be Google's Social Czar. He is apparently known to be the man behind Google+,[5] and is responsible for the controversial removal of social features from Google Reader.[6]

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#177
post #132
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lync looks really nice with that edit: XMPP federation feature is not available in Ofice365 Lync options, that's sad

To be fair, while the Office suite itself is pretty decent these days, Office 365 is terrible. Microsoft is still very much a software company and not a services company.

If you are talking about Office web-apps, maybe. But what is wrong with their hosted Exchange and SharePoint?

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#178
post #9

I'm pretty disappointed by the recent dropping of standards that Google has been doing. I'm quite a sceptical person and I've never been a fan of any big corp, but Google has been the one that I've trusted my data in the most and that I've been happiest with. I still trust them with some of my data, but I'm rapidly losing faith in them and in fact I'm starting to think that Microsoft are a more "open" company... and…

I was a Microsoft hater when I was 15, too, but at least Microsoft makes their money by selling Windows, Office and the like rather than by selling my data. So even if their ‘cloud services’ such as Outlook.com are ad-supported in some way, at least they don’t completely rely on that, and I still have the choice whether to use Windows or not – all their services run just fine in Opera on Debian, too.

Google does not sell your data. http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#179
post #170

Just because something is Open doesn't mean it is worth supporting when most people don't care about or use it anymore. Web Search Interest for RSS; down 78% from its peak in 2006: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=RSS Web Search Interest for XMPP; down 33% from its peak in 2010: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=XMPP As Bob Dylan once said: the times, they are a-changin' .

And with SMTP down 80% from its top in 2004 or imap down 58%, the question of the op should seem perfectly legitimate to you.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#180

Wait, so Google is dropping XMPP support because Outlook.com is supporting it to allow Gtalk users to chat on Outlook.com, so in order to perpetuate the GMail/GTalk lock-in by caging the Gtalk chat users to GMail, they're dropping standards support and killing access to all XMPP clients in existence including non-Microsoft ones? And they announce this right when Microsoft spent all the time and effort to allow Outloo…

I suspect the sudden change to XMPP was because Google was going to lose ad revenue because of Microsoft adding support for Gtalk in Outlook.com. Google is most effectient at showing relevant ads if they can track people across all their PCs and devices. Gmail is perhaps used as a "loss leader" to make people sign in into Google, so that cookies can be set and your search keywords and activities can be tracked across…

Vic Gundotra was the General Manager of Platform Evangelism in the 90s? That seems to explain a LOT of what's coming.

Also, looks like the post is getting heavily flagged and going down the front page rapidly.

Perhaps Google fans in the US west coast time zone woke up a bit ago and have starting flagging the story to make it disappear? Four different HN posts about the Youtube takedown notice got heavily flagged yesterday and this morning.

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