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The dying platform: .Net

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Re: The dying platform: .Net

#91

Post by ChrisPebble »

maresca wrote: post #60
chiph wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - Silverlight was obviously a tactical response to the threat of Flash. When Flash went into (steep) decline, there was no reason to keep Silverlight around. Both of us called this one correctly. WCF, on the other hand, is doing really well and is a decent approach to a framework around enterprise communications. But I admit that more often than not, I'm hand-coding my proxies to avoid code-bloat from generat…

There's something about WCF that rubs me the wrong way. I like coding Web Services. WCF just feels like bloat on top of web services. And traditional web services can be used cross-platform. I'm not sure WCF can. Maybe I'm just sticking with not fixing something that's not broken.

I think the sweet spot for WCF (for us at least) is for our internal APIs. The ability to easily expose the same service over a binary TCP stream or over HTTP makes a fantastic tool when you're trying to get a lot of different systems to talk to each other.

For external or HTTP-only APIs I completely agree that it's often overkill. Frameworks like servicestack are much easier to work with in those cases.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#92

Post by MatthewPhillips »

sergiotapia wrote: post #63
crag wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know I was playing around with ASP Web Pages (Razor) and loved it. Too bad WebMatrix is Windows only.

Razor is the worlds most advanced and easy to use view templating enging. It's the easiest and most succinct view engine I've ever used and is a joy to work with.

Seriously? Razor is just C# and strongly typed languages do not work well for templating. It's exceedingly difficult to make reusable partials in Razor, for example.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#93

Post by alexsilver »

Personally I couldn't be more in love with MSFT tools (granted they're expensive and I'm using whatever free version they give us). I've worked with Java way back but can't help switching back (WPF, Silverlight for a short while, MVC). When people ask me why on Earth I prefer this, I always give them the same explanation: "MSFT development products for a straight-up developer are what Apple products to an average consumer. Things integrate together instantly and just... work!"

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#94

Post by martijn_himself »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #87
martijn_himself wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely spot on, and I have exactly the same experience. What completely baffled me when I did quite a bit of SharePoint development of late is, that you are essentially doing web application development, except everything you know about web development is somehow not valid anymore because it has been buried under layers and layers of abstraction. So you have to go on at least one SharePoint development course, to…

Several years back I had a friend with a small business who wanted to do some SharePoint stuff, so I picked up 3 or 4 books on it and read them all. Oh. My. God. That tool will solve world hunger, land a fighter on a carrier deck at night in a storm, and compute the answer to life, the universe, and everything. It does frickin' everything . So it also does nothing. You end up having to digest a huge learning curve, c…

Thank you very much, those comments made my day :). I very much share the sentiment. I am developing in SharePoint and I am sometimes impressed at what it can do; however lately I have been thinking of jumping ship and start developing small business applications (in Golang) that solve user problems quickly and iteratively.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#95

Post by Zigurd »

MichaelAza wrote: post #7

.NET, like practically all tolls by Microsoft, is good for one thing - Large scale enterprise development for Windows. It plays well with Office, Access, Sharepoint, Active Directory, IIS etc. and it's the best around at what it's doing. You can also do webdev or solve highly concurrent problems with .NET and it's great at that as well (I'm very fond of the Nancy framework and C#'s async/await are a godsend) but it's…

".NET, like practically all tolls by Microsoft, is good for one thing - Large scale enterprise development for Windows."

It came so close to being Android. In 2000, Microsoft previewed .NET Compact Framework for Windows CE devices. At the time I had an iPaq connected via Bluetooth to an Ericsson 2.5G phone, and I writing C# apps for it. My immediate impression was "THIS is what mobile software should be like!"

Seven years later, with NETCF an optional oddity on Windows Mobile, Android showed you could do a mobile OS using a Java-like managed language system for both system middleware and applications. Windows Phone is a bit closer, but it still isn't that.

Android was willing to be more revolutionary, replacing much of the Linux userland with managed language code. That was a big gamble, but that is what it took to succeed. If Microsoft were to take the Win 8 kernel and .NET, or successor technologies, and unleash their engineers to make something really new, they would be a fearsome competitor.

Dragging Windows onto tablets is a waste of talent.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#96

Post by melc »

sergiotapia wrote: post #71
melc wrote: post #57

At the server side it simply gives no choice but proprietary and unreliable ms systems and a weak app/web server (iis). The desktop client side is only good for ms clients. For the devices realm there is nothing to talk about really and regarding windows phone it's a bit early. I've worked with .net in the past but now i usually avoid it as much as i can.

"Weak" Hah! I'd like to see some references to that claim. Oh wait, here it is: [1] - melc's ass. ============ IIS has given me a TON of performance right out of the box with a fantastic GUI editor for settings. StackOverflow a website with MILLIONS of monthly hits runs fine with IIS.

Even though i don't like your attitude i will try to give a little info that may assist other people. The reference i have is a couple of enterprise level projects (information systems for the public sector) built with c#, iis6 for the server side parts, sql server 2005 and win2003 R2 servers. Also sharepoint which was quickly replaced due to slowness and high resource consumption.

- Win2003 servers had a limit on the amount of RAM so that was a bit of a problem along with the sluggish performance compared to linux based servers that we are used to work on. Did we have a choice to switch operating system? hm.. not really

- sql server was pretty good it did much better than i expected and i really enjoyed all the functionality out of the box, but that was until we reached more than 10 millions of records in some tables, then it was no more fun but that could obviously happen with any database. Did we have a choice to switch database? hm.. not really

- iis6 whether you like it or not you have no other choice. Having a background with jee application servers of different vendors where i could configure and customize them in any level, switch them with other vendor solutions and do plenty of architectural tricks.... i did find iis situation a bit weak

- programming with c# was great, but if we needed any good libraries/APIs did not exist or we had to pay, not many choices here either and as with all other parts targeted only to ms platforms

Stackoverflow is really great, and i was sure that in the past i had stumbled upon a post about stackoverlfow architecture i.e. http://highscalability.com/blog/2009/8/5/stack-overflow-arch... to be honest i was a bit suprised that they were using ms technologies. To me the bottom line is that for large scale projects based on ms technologies you will eventually need to invest money and time to proprietary solutions without many architectural choices, at least not as many as other platforms provide. Of course that is certainly not a problem if one works only on ms platforms.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#97

Post by Zigurd »

rubinelli wrote: post #16

Java isn't looking too good, either, at least in the desktop. You know your platform has jumped the shark when it comes bundled with a toolbar. The question is, where to next? I've been watching Go for a while, but it looks like a tool from Googlers, for Googlers. Pulling all my dependencies from HEAD? No, thank you. Ironically, Javascript looks very promising right now, compared with the alternatives.

Java started out as a language for creating interactive apps on set top boxes. In a way, Android is a more natural home for Java than servers.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#98

Post by npsimons »

saosebastiao wrote: post #50

> Inherent hatred for Microsoft and anything it does, even if it is good. I think is pretty sad since I see this attitude from people that should be objective from a technical standpoint, licensing can’t always be an issue. Actually, yes it can. I think Microsoft (especially Microsoft Research) is amazing and have been one of the most innovative companies of the last 30 years. But I'm not gonna pay them for the right…

Seconded. You know what? Licensing wasn't a technical issue, until companies like Microsoft made it one. It's kind of hard to guarantee five nines when the EULA says they can shut you down at any time to make sure you are in compliance. Copyleft and GPL wouldn't even need to exist except for assholes who want to control what others do.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#99

Post by rubinelli »

MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #44
rubinelli wrote: post #16

Java isn't looking too good, either, at least in the desktop. You know your platform has jumped the shark when it comes bundled with a toolbar. The question is, where to next? I've been watching Go for a while, but it looks like a tool from Googlers, for Googlers. Pulling all my dependencies from HEAD? No, thank you. Ironically, Javascript looks very promising right now, compared with the alternatives.

You want to do JavaScript on the desktop? No. Go learn Python and Haskell.

In fact, I was looking into something like this, so I could theoretically do Python or Javascript with Bootstrap: http://bellite.io/docs/quickstart/

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#100

Post by [deleted] »

exch wrote: post #35
cypher543 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it strange that people are hung up on this remote dependency "issue." It's a convenience for small projects and quick samples. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from checking out a Go package locally and importing it just like any other dependency in any other language.

I'd have to agree here. There is no difference between Go's way of managing external dependencies, compared to any other language/platform where you use external packages. Whether they are manually downloaded and built, or pulled from some kind of source-control repo. The `go get ...` approach is just a convenience tool you can use /IF/ you want to. I get the impression that much of the complaints stem from not reall…

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