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Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

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Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also surprised that the drivers or their company failed to check a truck atlas when planning the route. I imagine the company has just as much incentive to prevent incidents.

Did you notice the truck in the video was overloaded way above the normal height of the bed? The truck could have easily passed any checks on paper, but the load itself is what causes the interference.

Yeah, in theory they would check the heights in the atlas versus the effective height of a given load, not just the height on paper. Why the truck was overloaded also begs a look at company policies. If this particular site is experiencing this issue 2 or 3 times a month then I wonder if the cost of guessing wrong and congesting the tunnel isn't high enough compared to just sending two trucks.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#192
post #74

That's a cute high-tech solution. A simpler one is to put a horizontal bar, the same height as the tunnel's ceiling, which will physically stop the truck before causing millions worth of damages. It's often done in France, sometimes with an early warning: a first arch with chains hanging to the maximal height. It makes a lot of noise on the truck's top, but won't destroy it.

Yes, but that would require that the road close for debris to be picked up. The water wall solution allows the tunnel to resume operation quickly. A small jam in the Sydney Harbour Tunnel blocks the whole city, so we want to avoid unnecessarily large delays.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mostly truck drivers that are dead tired." This. People don't even realize how important it is that people operating heavy machinery are well rested, and sometimes even put down appropriate regulations as just "worker's issues". Then you get a sleepy, bored guy on a highway, with neither awareness to spot dangerous situations, or willpower left to restrain from doing stupid things. It's a testament to how good they…

And that's why the EU every truck needs to be legally fitted with a Tachometer that measures every parameter of a vehicle, and a truck driver cannot legally drive for more than 8 hours (I think they can do 9 hours once per week, and they need a 24h break at least once per week as well) - after that, they need at least 8 hour break, when the vehicle cannot move. If the truck is stopped by the police,and they find that…

Actually I'm from EU country(-ie, actually), and it works... inconsistently. There's fraud, and there's shifting the blame on drivers while trying pressuring them to take the risks anyway (works especially 'well' in countries where many truck drivers are self-employed, like, say, Poland).

And then you get a Polish bus driver with a bus full of people going for a pilgrimage through Swiss Alps, which then fills the news for a week in two countries.

It's way better than nothing, though, and the deficiencies are something that should be fixed even within existing law (e.g. the "self-employment" could really easily be proved to be actually a normal job, if the prosecution cared enough).

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#195
A lot of people seem to be struggling to understand why this solution is needed in place of {big metal bar, hanging chains, flashing signs above road, etc.} and why drivers seem to act counter to logic and common sense by ignoring warnings and so ending up in situations where they're stuck and cause damage to their truck or load.

It's as simple as this: signs around the edge of your field of vision are far less noticeable than signs directly in the centre of your field of vision. Signs around the edge are also far more common than signs directly in the middle of the road. Common events (such as these signs whizzing past) breed complacency and it's a fundamental tenant of workplace health and safety that some of the biggest risk events are not those that are inherently risky or difficult, but those that are performed so frequently that the practitioners become lazy with complacency (example: smacking yourself in the face and knocking your teeth out when undoing a tight bolt because you're pulling the spanner towards you). Driving is such a repetitive task that said complacency is incredibly high as a result, which explains all kinds of road phenomenon that you'll witness on a daily basis and wonder 'what the HELL was that idiot thinking?!?'.

In the rail industry, level crossing incidents are way too common. I recall one several years ago that killed the two train drivers when a B-double ran a crossing and ripped the oncoming train right off the tracks when the train ran in to the trailer of the B-double. The report ([1] specifically sections 2.3.7 and 2.3.8 starting PDF page 72. Fascinating reading about human factors of accidents if you're in to that) made it very clear that the truck driver failed to see the flashing lights and associated signage alerting that a train was coming. As a result, he failed to stop. Importantly, it notes that it is entirely possible to miss major changes to your environment (big flashing signs, in the tunnel case) if your attention is elsewhere.

Couple that with the fact that driving long distances for extended periods can be almost hypnotic, especially at night and when fatigued. Driving becomes almost automatic. Ever driven a long distance and realised you don't actually remember specifics of the journey? Yeh. These guys are going to be driving at night (due to being in the middle of a major city) where lights from billboards, etc. are surrounding their field of view. It's like driving through a star trek warp speed tunnel with lights flashing past your field of view constantly. That's hypnotic and you zone out as a result. As such, the driver's attention levels are pretty much nil and no low-hanging beam is going to snap him back to reality.

By throwing something completely different directly in the field of vision, the driver is immediately snapped back to reality in a big way. Your attention is (usually) mostly focused on the road in front of you when you're driving, even when you're distracted. Furthering the extremity of the reality check is that it's a gigantic 'STOP' sign - not just the word stop, but the word stop in the big red hexagonal sign. The sign is designed to provoke a response by its shape and colour (we're conditioned to hold that meaning to said shape and colour) and throwing it immediately in front of the driver will grab their attention in a way that bars and chains and all that simply will not.

In summary, by using a sign directly in front of the driver rather than through some secondary communications medium (e.g.: banging on the roof of the vehicle), the likelihood of detection and subsequent reaction is far higher. It will succeed where other mechanisms of alerting will fail. Water is used because it's convenient, doesn't cause lasting damage/debris and can be deployed very quickly. For the benefit such a design brings (avoiding blocking just about the biggest express road thoroughfare in Australia's largest city), the upfront cost is negligible and is easily justified over cheaper but less effective alternatives.

[1]: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/railsafety/safetyre...

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#196
post #195

A lot of people seem to be struggling to understand why this solution is needed in place of {big metal bar, hanging chains, flashing signs above road, etc.} and why drivers seem to act counter to logic and common sense by ignoring warnings and so ending up in situations where they're stuck and cause damage to their truck or load. It's as simple as this: signs around the edge of your field of vision are far less notic…

fundamental tenet

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#197
post #85
post #69

And I think some people will STILL crash on the tunnel anyway. I made a arcade game once: www.abril.com.br/blog/campus-party/2011/01/19/fanatico-por-jogos-leva-seu-proprio-fliperama-para-a-arena/ It has instructions printed on the sides of the screen... It was VERY, VERY, VERY common to someone ask people around them what a button do (sometimes to even random passerby people, or for example a couple arrived at the ma…

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000062.... When you design user interfaces, it's a good idea to keep two principles in mind: 1. Users don't have the manual, and if they did, they wouldn't read it. 2. In fact, users can't read anything, and if they could, they wouldn't want to.

This is so very true, thanks for showering me with this wisdom!

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#198

Or they could you know....just build a tunnel big enough to fir every vehicle size? I don't think this problem exists in the UK, I've driven through many different tunnels and they will accept any vehicle size.

> I don't think this problem exists in the UK The UK has plenty of very old infrastructure that was not designed for modern trucks. Example from elsewhere in this thread, built in 1897: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=blackwall+tunnel&hl=en&...

I think the point being modern tunnels with modern water screen signs would probably be big enough in the UK to accommodate the common vehicle sizes.

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#199
post #69

And I think some people will STILL crash on the tunnel anyway. I made a arcade game once: www.abril.com.br/blog/campus-party/2011/01/19/fanatico-por-jogos-leva-seu-proprio-fliperama-para-a-arena/ It has instructions printed on the sides of the screen... It was VERY, VERY, VERY common to someone ask people around them what a button do (sometimes to even random passerby people, or for example a couple arrived at the ma…

You should talk to my mum about it. When anything comes up on her computers' screen, she will just panic and call me or my dad or anyone else, BEFORE even reading what is says. Most conversations look like this: "Hi son, my computer just broke, something came up on the screen and it won't go away" "ok mom, what does it say?" "I don't know, I haven't read it" People are exceedingly good at ignoring information if they…

You mean, 'I don't know, I closed it.'

Re: Sydney tunnel water screen stop sign for oversized vehicles [video]

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mostly truck drivers that are dead tired." This. People don't even realize how important it is that people operating heavy machinery are well rested, and sometimes even put down appropriate regulations as just "worker's issues". Then you get a sleepy, bored guy on a highway, with neither awareness to spot dangerous situations, or willpower left to restrain from doing stupid things. It's a testament to how good they…

And that's why the EU every truck needs to be legally fitted with a Tachometer that measures every parameter of a vehicle, and a truck driver cannot legally drive for more than 8 hours (I think they can do 9 hours once per week, and they need a 24h break at least once per week as well) - after that, they need at least 8 hour break, when the vehicle cannot move. If the truck is stopped by the police,and they find that…

These restrictions exist in Australia as well. They sometimes need to refund the drivers if they get fined due to a traffic lockup.
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