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Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

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Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#121

Post by roboneal »

roboneal wrote: post #27

An appropriate partial quote of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged: “Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken." "But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt."

I actually hoped my comment would actually spark a discussion on the actual substance of the quote.

Apparently, I've seemed to have only succeeded in flushing out the pro and anti-Ayn Rand camps. My mistake.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#122

Post by jlgreco »

lttlrck wrote: post #116
codex wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make an excellent point. I am worried about the case where the driver, distracted, looks away from the intersection for a second. Returning their gaze to the light, they see it red. They never observed it yellow, and thus they have no idea how long it has been red and whether or not it is safe to run the light. Perhaps this is why we have yellow to begin with--as an redundant means of clocking the time until the…

If they look away long enough to miss the yellow then, some might say, they deserve what's coming.

The entire fucking point of this article is that they are dropping the time yellow is displayed too low.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#123

Post by subsystem »

Udo wrote: post #95
scott_karana wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of an American thing. Her philosophies fit in well with existing Individualism. Her influence was never particularly large, and has faded over time, but left a cultural mark. (See all the objections to the GP? :)

Thanks for answering that. However, I've been exposed to US culture since early adulthood and somehow she or her work didn't come up until I joined HN. It seems to me her influence is especially strong here, but that could of course be anecdotal. From an outsider's perspective it just seems... odd.

I don't agree with the answers you're getting. The US is a subset of the world. People into computers in the US is a subset of the US population, which is also grouped differently than in Europe. HN is in turn a subset of those people.

The US is more right-wing than Europe. People into computers in the US are fairly affluent, probably even more so compared to Europe. HN readers are more business focused and less hacker/community focused than other people into computers.

Generalizations of course, but I would bet few of the people answering you have been to CCC for instance.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#124

Post by ok_craig »

mistercow wrote: post #119
ok_craig wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding effort with respect to transport gets you to work faster, which is most instances is the point of transport. Avoiding effort with respect to discussing ideas gets you bias, which is the opposite of the point of discussion. So you're basically openly saying that you are willing to comment here, without considering the perspectives being put forth that you're replying to, which at the very least seems against…

>Avoiding effort with respect to discussing ideas gets you bias, which is the opposite of the point of discussion. Avoiding effort with respect to discussing ideas that I can broadly (and efficiently) classify as not likely to be worthwhile gives me time to think about and discuss other ideas that are more likely to be worth my time. Does it "get me bias" if I ignore the rantings of a crazy person I see on the street…

It's bias if you decipher a logical point, and continue to believe something that is counter to it, without providing countering logic.

Deciphering a logical point may or may not happen depending on the context. It's more likely to happen in an HN thread than by listening to a crazy person.

Efficiency would necessitate not blind rejection, but a decision to simply not judge. Rejection is a judgment. Judgment without logic is a bias.

The "blind rejection" comment you originally replied to, was pretty clearly referring to judgment without logic. This is something different from intellectual efficiency, which would simply be deciding to not form a judgment at the time, if one reasonably decided that there was not enough information available at that moment to do so, and the importance doing something else outweighed the importance of judging the idea in that moment.

So, while I agree with a concept of efficiency or temporary non-judgment, I disagree that it's the same thing as auto-rejection, which is judgment.

By countering a counter to a comment advocating auto-rejection of ideas, you seemed to be advocating auto-rejection of ideas, as opposed to advocating non-judgment.

I guess auto-rejection is also technically an "efficient" approach, but it is definitely intellectually lazy. Non-judgment is not intellectually lazy, if actually used for the sake of efficiency and not avoidance.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#125

Post by greg5green »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #60
SonicSoul wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he's pointing out the irony cops endangering traffic safety in supposed aim of improving traffic safety

Is there a reason to believe that the police are trying to improve _traffic_ safety at this place? Perhaps they are trying to prioritize _pedestrian_ safety. That is, after all, why most no-turn-on-red signs are installed in California.

When looking at the map that was posted two things are clear to me:

1. Blocking 3/4 of one of the lanes under the bridge is a danger to both motorists and pedestrians. 2. I highly doubt there are many pedestrians at this intersection. It is basically an industrial park and the road dead ends a block away.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#126

Post by greg5green »

t0mas88 wrote: post #96

If you think this is a way to collect money, try driving in the Netherlands. Our normal speedlimit is 130 km/h, but we have limits of 100 km/h on wide and empty 5 lane highways in the middle of nowhere enforced by average-speedcameras (so 100% chance of getting caught even if speeding by as little as 2 mph) Oh and the fine of 10 mph (16km/h) over the limit is 174 USD... but really, this is about safety, not about the…

$174 USD isn't unreasonable for a 10mph over ticket in the states. I'd expect that plus court fees here.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#127

Post by chm »

ubernostrum wrote: post #107
chm wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never read Ayn Rand, but I have heard of her before. Why are such quotes inappropriate?

There are several problems with Ayn Rand. One is that her ideas were not particularly original, and not particularly well-expressed. Self-centered philosophies are far from new, and actually are pretty well-trod ground, but her work does little to address already-existing critiques and, as literature, is not particularly good (her characters tend to be one-dimensional, plots lack good development/tension/resolution,…

Many thanks for providing sources and context. I'll ad this to my Amazon Wish List.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#128

Post by mistercow »

ok_craig wrote: post #124
mistercow wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Avoiding effort with respect to discussing ideas gets you bias, which is the opposite of the point of discussion. Avoiding effort with respect to discussing ideas that I can broadly (and efficiently) classify as not likely to be worthwhile gives me time to think about and discuss other ideas that are more likely to be worth my time. Does it "get me bias" if I ignore the rantings of a crazy person I see on the street…

It's bias if you decipher a logical point, and continue to believe something that is counter to it, without providing countering logic. Deciphering a logical point may or may not happen depending on the context. It's more likely to happen in an HN thread than by listening to a crazy person. Efficiency would necessitate not blind rejection , but a decision to simply not judge. Rejection is a judgment. Judgment without…

Now I see that our disagreement is over definitions. To me, "blind rejection" of a quote is "I don't care what this quote contains because of who said it. I have stopped listening." Maybe that's what thrownaway2424 and jrajav meant, respectively, or maybe not. By the principle of charity, that's what jrajav should have considered thrownaway2424's comment to mean, but of course it is also possible that jrajav didn't consider that interpretation.

In any case, by "blind rejection" I meant "automatic disregard", not "automatic disagreement". I certainly agree that automatically disagreeing with a person, regardless of what they say, is a losing strategy except in the very specific case that you've encountered and conclusively identified the fabled Omniscient Lying Labyrinth Guard.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#129

Post by [deleted] »

georgemcbay wrote: post #38
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you sympathize with people who can't be bothered to observe posted traffic regulations?

No, I don't really sympathize with people who get caught there very much nor did I say I did. But I sympathize far less with the cop who is doing way more to endanger my safety than the other drivers are, all in the name of scoring some easy stops to meet an obvious quota. For visual reference, this is the intersection: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=32.917322,-117.2356... The people getting popped for right ha…

[deleted]

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#130

Post by cobrausn »

rhizome wrote: post #97
cobrausn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After you turn 30 you realize that not everyone will believe what you do or be right about everything, but when they are right about one thing and you disregard it 'out of principle', you look the fool.

What age do you have to turn before you realize that "right" is a function of power, not facts?

The first time you hear the words 'because I said so'.
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