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Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

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Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#21

Post by georgemcbay »

I work close to a fairly rare "no right on red" (in California right on red is legal unless signs prohibit it) intersection.

Without fail, near the end of the month there will be a cop car sitting under the bridge overlooking the turn for hours just waiting for someone to make the turn. Shamelessly sitting there, in the dark and under a bridge, blocking half the rightmost lane of a busy street, causing a far greater safety concern than would be caused by anyone taking a normal right-on-red at that corner.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#23

Post by bryanlarsen »

tolmasky wrote: post #12
bryanlarsen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they decrease the yellow time and increase the all-red time the same amount, people have exactly the same amount of time to stop.

Just so I understand, you are under the impression that 0 seconds is the appropriate time required to stop, which would obviously be the case if your car was moving legally at the speed limit at the edge of the road when the green light immediately changed to a red light.

Yellow means "stop if safe". Red means "stop", but when driving "if safe" is always implied. I've driven through red lights to let emergency vehicles through, and a judge would likely throw out a ticket given for such a reason.

Yellow lights increase safety by avoiding the "slam on the brakes" effect you've described. They've replaced this with a very common "floor the accelarator" reaction which also decreases safety. How do you get one without the other? Red light cameras combined with a short yellow seem the best approach to me.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#24

Post by rdtsc »

codex wrote: post #6
bryanlarsen wrote: post #5

If they increased the "all-red" time to match, then good for Florida. They've increased their revenues, their roads are safer, and those who are running yellows are getting what they deserve. Running yellows is illegal and far too common. If they didn't increase the all-red time they are making the roads more dangerous. People get accustomed to the length of the yellow & all-red time. But if the total doesn't change,…

How goes giving someone less time to stop before someone else goes not decrease safety? Why not shorten the yellow time to zero?

As someone pointed out it doesn't if the total red+yellow time is still the same (i.e. red time is replaced with yellow).

The counter-argument is well it increases chance of rear end collision when people stop suddenly. And that is true.

The counter-argument to the above is well they should be driving with enough assured distance between vehicles and below the speed limit.

To "maximize" revenue they could be making the legally correct assumption that everyone is keeping a good enough distance and driving below the speed limit, and they'd actually have a legally defensible position as much as I hate to admit it.

(It is also hard to argue informally that they don't know what they are doing, they know perfectly well, as others pointed out, if this was a start up maximizing revenue we should be cheering, right, right...?)

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#26

Post by troebr »

The same thing happened in New Jersey, but the state took the matters in hand, and effectively suspended the cameras last summer (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/is_your_local_red_l...). I was flashed in Newark, after a very short yellow light on a 55mph road where normally yellow lights are long enough so that you do not have to dangerously slam the brakes. According to another article I read, it is supposed to be 4 seconds for 40mph roads. I was flashed after what looked like at most 2 seconds of yellow light.

I never received anything, and I found out about the yellow light abuses.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#27

Post by roboneal »

An appropriate partial quote of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged:

“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken."

"But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt."

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#29

Post by corin_ »

tolmasky wrote: post #12
bryanlarsen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they decrease the yellow time and increase the all-red time the same amount, people have exactly the same amount of time to stop.

Just so I understand, you are under the impression that 0 seconds is the appropriate time required to stop, which would obviously be the case if your car was moving legally at the speed limit at the edge of the road when the green light immediately changed to a red light.

No, you're missing his point. He's talking about safety, not avoiding fines. If lights go straight from green to red, but then wait 60 seconds before any other traffic goes from red to green, then it won't cause any safety issues, because even if a handful of cars can't stop in time when it goes red, there won't be any other traffic around. Off course it could cause problems with cars going in the same direction stopping too quickly, but the assumption is that cars won't just slam on their breaks as soon as they see the red light (and let's not forget this is also the hypothetical in which there is no orange light).

This line of discussion is unrelated to whether or not they should be trying to maximise fines.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#30

Post by thrownaway2424 »

georgemcbay wrote: post #21

I work close to a fairly rare "no right on red" (in California right on red is legal unless signs prohibit it) intersection. Without fail, near the end of the month there will be a cop car sitting under the bridge overlooking the turn for hours just waiting for someone to make the turn. Shamelessly sitting there, in the dark and under a bridge, blocking half the rightmost lane of a busy street, causing a far greater…

So you sympathize with people who can't be bothered to observe posted traffic regulations?
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