Live data from Hacker News

Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

wtsp.com

101–110 of 131 posts

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#101

So below the federal recommendation and worse, not uniformly but more often on lights with cameras leading to non standard light behaviour. Because we really want unpredictable behaviour from our traffic system... that can only lead to safer roads... like variable length steps on a stair case. These people should be charged with public endangerment. edit: Also as someone pointed out, less warning to pedestrians to cl…

It might be surprising, actually: having significant uncertainty can be much safer than (false) certainty.

There was a town that took down all stop signs and traffic lights, and it significantly decreased traffic accidents and injuries.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the flashing-hand signal is what gives pedestrians time to clear the intersection (often with a counter!).

I've seen enough crosswalks that go from solid red hand to a flashing red hand immediately, that I now ignore the flashing red hand until the street light turns yellow. Shortening it makes it dangerous for a lot of parties.

Please complain to your local traffic engineers. The MUTCD requires at least a 4-second walk signal and specifies 7 seconds as the normal minimum. http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/fig4e_02_longdesc.h...

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#103

For those of you who didn't bother reading the article, which I assume will be all of you since this topic normally drags up the least-able critical thinkers on this site, I'll summarize it for you: the Florida DOT lowered yellow duration to a level appropriate for the speed limit on the road. The duration might not be long enough for speeding cars to stop. So in addition to being colossal asshats, people who are spe…

hear hear!

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so I understand, you are under the impression that 0 seconds is the appropriate time required to stop, which would obviously be the case if your car was moving legally at the speed limit at the edge of the road when the green light immediately changed to a red light.

Yellow means "stop if safe". Red means "stop", but when driving "if safe" is always implied. I've driven through red lights to let emergency vehicles through, and a judge would likely throw out a ticket given for such a reason. Yellow lights increase safety by avoiding the "slam on the brakes" effect you've described. They've replaced this with a very common "floor the accelarator" reaction which also decreases safet…

>Yellow lights increase safety by avoiding the "slam on the brakes" effect you've described. They've replaced this with a very common "floor the accelarator" reaction which also decreases safety.

In a typical car, flooring the gas pedal is conservatively going to be about 9ft/s² in the same direction as you're already moving. Slamming on the brakes is going to accelerate you at about 15ft/s² in the opposite direction as you're already moving. The effects these two actions have on safety are not comparable

>Red light cameras combined with a short yellow seem the best approach to me.

Except that that approach has been conclusively demonstrated to increase both accidents and fatalities, while lengthening yellow lights has been shown to reduce both accidents and fatalities.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you sympathize with people who can't be bothered to observe posted traffic regulations?

And despite all these tickets being issued in the name of 'safety', people still continue to slightly miss the yellow, not quite come to a complete stop before turning right, and fail to make a snap judgement correct 100% of the time. The accident rate remains fairly constant or goes up as the city rakes in millions (and the company that makes the camera gets theirs as well, which can be used to lobby for more camera…

100% enforcement of traffic laws would be a great thing. A wise man once said, "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#106
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of an American thing. Her philosophies fit in well with existing Individualism. Her influence was never particularly large, and has faded over time, but left a cultural mark. (See all the objections to the GP? :)

Thanks for answering that. However, I've been exposed to US culture since early adulthood and somehow she or her work didn't come up until I joined HN. It seems to me her influence is especially strong here, but that could of course be anecdotal. From an outsider's perspective it just seems... odd.

It is an American/Internet thing in general. Wherever American politics pops up online you will eventually see someone reference her and get piled on, or see someone accuse the other of being "Ayn Randian" or whatever.

If you enjoy this sort of thing, check out reddit sometime.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#107
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After you turn 14 you'll realize there is actually never an appropriate moment for an Ayn Rand quote.

I have never read Ayn Rand, but I have heard of her before. Why are such quotes inappropriate?

There are several problems with Ayn Rand.

One is that her ideas were not particularly original, and not particularly well-expressed. Self-centered philosophies are far from new, and actually are pretty well-trod ground, but her work does little to address already-existing critiques and, as literature, is not particularly good (her characters tend to be one-dimensional, plots lack good development/tension/resolution, etc.).

Another is that she has become a frankly cult-like figure, with people approaching her work the wrong way around: rather than "this statement is correct, and Ayn Rand said it", too often there is a seeming attitude of "this statement is correct because Ayn Rand said it". The Objectivist movement (people who follow her work and philosophy) is particularly infamous for this, having an established history of venerating her and doing some rather extreme turns when she was alive and particular people from her circle fell out of her favor.

Finally, most of her work is easy to critique with only very basic reasoning/argumentative skills, despite presenting itself as a solid, rationally-justified framework. More realistically, Rand's philosophy consists of appeals to emotional responses, based on the idea of self-evaluation of one's own greatness and the notion that this greatness exists more or less in a vacuum (one of the famous examples is "going Galt", wherein all of the great people who produce value simply retreat and form their own separate society, to spite the "parasites" who "leeched" off their work).

To continue with the fiction theme, one of Heinlein's stories ("The Roads Must Roll", 1940) anticipated and harshly criticized the type of philosophy Rand ended up promoting. One of the asides there is to a philosophy of "Functionalism"; the founder of the philosophy advocates evaluating people -- and giving them power and prestige -- based on what "function" they can perform, and how valuable it is to society.

The result is large numbers of people who do not really make any unusually-significant contributions, but who all come to the conclusion that whatever they do is the one truly indispensable thing, and if they stopped doing it the whole society would fall apart, so they should be given more power or prestige over others in recognition. As Heinlein puts it, "With so many different functions actually indispensible, such self-persuasion was easy." Heinlein also offers a description of the founder of "Functionalism" which critiques the philosophy and in many ways critiques Rand's later work as well, when he says:

The complete interdependence of modern economic life seems to have escaped him entirely.

(see Wikipedia for a summary of the story, or look it up -- it's been republished/anthologized: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll)

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#108
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of an American thing. Her philosophies fit in well with existing Individualism. Her influence was never particularly large, and has faded over time, but left a cultural mark. (See all the objections to the GP? :)

Thanks for answering that. However, I've been exposed to US culture since early adulthood and somehow she or her work didn't come up until I joined HN. It seems to me her influence is especially strong here, but that could of course be anecdotal. From an outsider's perspective it just seems... odd.

I think it's more coincidence than trend. She's definitely discussed more in the US than the rest of the world, but not specifically more on HN. People tend to agree or disagree with her strongly, so when it comes up once it generally doesn't die until everybody who feels obligated to criticize or defend her have made their points.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#109
post #99
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yellow lights don't cause more traffic accidents... shorter yellow lights do. How do you think that "Cross streets don't turn green until the yellow is gone" indicates that should not be the case?

Regardless, the cities are still "growth hacking."

You are not being coherent.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#110

This is a perfect example of mismatched incentives. When a deterrent is working, you get very few violations. Rewarding the detection of violations is incentivizing exactly the wrong thing. You're rewarding for making things worse! I don't know what incentives would work, in the case of red light cameras. - Accuracy on unmarked test cars going through the intersection? (testing is expensive) - Clamping the income fro…

All fines from traffic incidents go into a separate piggy bank that's refunded equally to taxpayers at the end of the year and can't be drawn on for departmental or government funds.

How we get from here to there, I don't know.

Post reply on HN