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Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

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Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#61

Post by felipec »

jasonlotito wrote: post #50
seanc722 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting having user's feedback in a project is self-centered?

Not at all, and I didn't even remotely suggest as such. Supporting having user's feedback is an idea. Acting self-centered is the way you act, your attitude. One has nothing to do with the other.

I didn't act self-centered, I acted as if what I said was true, and I still believe it is.

If you say; I've never tried X, but it sucks. I'm pretty certain that's speculation, because you've never tried it, and that's exactly what I told GNOME developers.

It's speculation, and I'm pretty certain about it, that's why I acted so certain. What's wrong about acting so certain, when you are?

Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#62

Post by mcherm »

As I see it, Felipe WAS being abrasive in tone, and I can see why people would be disturbed by that. But if I were the administrator, I would never have banned him for this without first giving specific, actionable feedback on how to say the same thing in a different tone. People have different strengths, and some may be brilliant programmers or have excellent UI design ideas while being rather poor in social and communication skills -- without actionable feedback they cannot improve. And "just stop the way you're acting" is not actionable feedback -- in fact, responding that way ALSO demonstrates poor communication skills.

Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#63

Post by Nursie »

skrebbel wrote: post #60
Nursie wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In fact, it's one of the things that keep me from trying out stuff like Linux for real." If you're even remotely involved in technology as a profession, this is a deficiency in your skillset. Linux now runs much of the world and isn't really a novelty. "If a question like 'which audio driver do i best install?' can only be answered by reading through a multi-year flamewar, why would I bother?" Unless you have specia…

Good post, and I've little to add but the following: First, the world isn't running on Linux. Webservers are, but software techology is a lot more than stuff on web servers. For example, i work in embedded software, mostly for relatively large machines (ATMs, multifunctional copiers, industrial machines that turn stuff into other stuff), and Linux isn't that common there. The most common setup is some (micro)controll…

>> "First, the world isn't running on Linux."

A significant portion of it is now. Maybe not desktop linux with gnome/kde/xfce/whatever, but it is in a lot of places. It's on a lot of home networking gear (NAS, routers etc), it runs a lot of the server room and has even found a home on mainframes. It's also in supercomputers and in a lot of consumer electronics these days (Android phones, kindle touch and I assume paperwhite).

I too have worked in embedded software recently and can tell you that some of the newer credit card processing terminals run a fairly standard linux-on-arm with framebuffer display setup.

It may be a niche desktop OS at present, but it does a hell of a lot behind the scenes, webservers are no where near the extent of it.

--edit-- I wouldn't be surprised if you were right on the arguments, as they are often quite ideological in nature.

--edit2-- Smart TVs! Love 'em or hate 'em, Samsung Smart Tvs run Linux too...

--edit3-- Also the most popular laptop on amazon US, and third most popular on amazon.co.uk. Sure it's a chromebook, but that's just a cut down, restricted linux too.

--edit4--You mention cars, Jaguar Landrover, Nissan and Toyota have recently kicked off "Automotive Grade Linux" (I swear I'll stop editing in a minute but boring day is boring...)

Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#65

Post by felipec »

cyphax wrote: post #4

Playing the devil's advocate in a way: I'm not surprised that he got the ban. After Olav wanted to stop polluting the topic with this meta discussion about "tone" and "speculation", Felipe kept going on anyway, about how complaining about "tone" is unsophisticated (which is actually getting personal). It made him come off as wanting the last word, and that, I think, made them trigger the ban. Of course, whether or no…

I was not the one that brought "done" to the discussion, it was Olav and others. That was pretty off-topic, he should have banned himself.

Speculation on the other hand is very relevant to the topic. If you accept you arrived at a conclusion through speculation, it opens the possibility that the conclusion might be wrong, and needed to be re-evaluated.

Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#66

Post by felipec »

aetimmes wrote: post #38

Can we edit the title to say (2011)? The fact that you're bringing this up two years later only serves to validate Olav's viewpoint.

I'm bringing it because I saw another guy that was also banned for wrong reasons. I think it's relevant now.

Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#67

Post by bkor »

ralfn wrote: post #55
bkor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are clear rules on how to behave. You say it was fine, but you only judge on his version of his behaviour. He went on and on and on, various bugreports, various personal emails, etc. Eventually enough is enough. I see that you are now perfectly happy to call me a sneaky bastard. Try going to a conference and talking to me in person instead of this anonymous internet.

The interaction escalated, but you were as much to blame for that as well. The problem is the ban hammer. An independent judge would either ban you both or neither. This is supposed to be a profesionally run project, not scriptkiddies in dome irc chatroom acting tough. And i second the other remark. You wouldnt dare behave like this in public. Trying to get somebody removed from a conference for an opinion you do not…

> This is supposed to be a profesionally run project, not scriptkiddies in dome irc chatroom acting tough.

You're suggesting how I should behave, while calling me a scriptkiddie? Wtf? The rest of your post is much of the same.

Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#68

Post by bkor »

beedogs wrote: post #32
bkor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are clear rules on how to behave. You say it was fine, but you only judge on his version of his behaviour. He went on and on and on, various bugreports, various personal emails, etc. Eventually enough is enough. I see that you are now perfectly happy to call me a sneaky bastard. Try going to a conference and talking to me in person instead of this anonymous internet.

try behaving the way you behaved on bugzilla at a conference.

I have invited people to conferences before. They never show up. I behave the same in real life as on Internet.

I'll say it again: Go to FOSDEM, go to the GNOME stand. I'll be near the stand most of the afternoon.

Pretty nice to judge people over the Internet, as said, try talking to me in real life, making a real judgement.

Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#69

Post by felipec »

mcherm wrote: post #62

As I see it, Felipe WAS being abrasive in tone, and I can see why people would be disturbed by that. But if I were the administrator, I would never have banned him for this without first giving specific, actionable feedback on how to say the same thing in a different tone. People have different strengths, and some may be brilliant programmers or have excellent UI design ideas while being rather poor in social and com…

I agree. In fact, a warning saying "don't continue this tone or I'll ban you" would have been more than enough. About the tone, I don't think there was any way I could have conveyed my message that their conclusions were wrong in a way they would like.

If somebody really cared, they could have tried to say the same thing I did, in different words, but the bug is still open. They are never going to change their minds.

Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning

#70

Post by [deleted] »

Nursie wrote: post #63
skrebbel wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good post, and I've little to add but the following: First, the world isn't running on Linux. Webservers are, but software techology is a lot more than stuff on web servers. For example, i work in embedded software, mostly for relatively large machines (ATMs, multifunctional copiers, industrial machines that turn stuff into other stuff), and Linux isn't that common there. The most common setup is some (micro)controll…

>> "First, the world isn't running on Linux." A significant portion of it is now. Maybe not desktop linux with gnome/kde/xfce/whatever, but it is in a lot of places. It's on a lot of home networking gear (NAS, routers etc), it runs a lot of the server room and has even found a home on mainframes. It's also in supercomputers and in a lot of consumer electronics these days (Android phones, kindle touch and I assume pap…

[deleted]
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