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Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

blogs.law.harvard.edu

41–50 of 112 posts

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. Because Sandberg never says she admires her brother because of that fact. She says she admires her brother, and then states that fact about the brother. Greenspun is the one who makes the false connection. Here is the full quote: I should have understood that this kind of self-doubt was more common from females from growing up with my brother. David is two years younger than I am and one of the people in t…

Actually the point Greanspun (not Greensburg) is trying is whether her brother confidence would have resulted in an A in a physics class at Caltech.

That may be his point. My point is that he stitches together falsehoods to evoke emotional responses in his readers.

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#42
post #31

This is utterly devastating and long overdue. Sandberg makes $845 million in a year (at a company she didn't found), lives a charmed life, and is promoted aggressively by men...yet has managed to convince herself that the world is/was biased against women. But even Greenspan is prevented by polite convention from making the obvious point: women and men have different chromosomal structures, lifespans, organs, and hor…

The reason that people are berated for suggesting inherent differences is that there's so much more to the story. Almost nothing derives purely from genes; it's a complex interaction of genes, epigenetics (environmental and hereditary factors other than genes that control which genes are active), and socialization.

Males and females are treated extremely differently from birth. Literally, in the very first day. Thus, it is nearly impossible to actually prove scientifically that a significant difference comes from genetic and biological factors. The socialization is a confounding factor that's impossible to separate out unless you're willing to do a study where you raise kids in isolation from society so you can treat them identically.

And even "inherent" differences are often easily overcome with social solutions. There's research to suggest that the difference in spatial reasoning is societal.[1] Furthermore, I believe I saw a study suggesting that even in our society, if you put everyone through a proper course teaching them spatial reasoning, the women catch up to the men. So society can choose to eliminate "inherent" differences by devoting a few resources to something that helps one group catch up to the other.

Furthermore, it ultimately doesn't matter that much. Western society has decided that we want equality between men and women. If that's not happening, then we've committed ourselves to make it happen. There are currently differences between men and women, largely from socialization. Since our society was largely built by men, it unsurprisingly is oriented toward having successful men in it. That doesn't mean we throw up our hands and say, "well, this is how our society is structured, and our society socializes men to win in that structure. I guess equality is inherently impossible." No. We find ways to reduce gender socialization (see: radical schools in Sweden). We find ways to restructure society so that there are fewer barriers to some groups' success.

1: http://lesswrong.com/lw/7fk/gender_differences_in_spatial_re...

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#43

I don't know why people are so critical of Greenspun. Maybe I'm the only one who finds cynical curmudgeons amusing.

No, no! He's always a pleasure to read. But then I come from a long line of cynical curmudgeons and this stuff always reminds me of my (now deceased) uncles.

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#44
We all know "Lean In" is a ploy to get her into the national election psyche. She is probably a better candidate than most of the other jokers. However, we really can't take the book that seriously nor it's pseudo science. I listened to a NPR event by her and was so surprised how she used stereotypes about men to dispel stereotypes about women and no one once called her on it! It's very simple. She now has "business" background, she is using Lean In to recruit activist women who she needs as volunteers. Her Facebook credentials will endear her to younger voters as well. So she will get some of independents who might like her business background. She will get the female and youth vote. So on paper she is a good candidate and the book is her gateway.

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#45
post #31

This is utterly devastating and long overdue. Sandberg makes $845 million in a year (at a company she didn't found), lives a charmed life, and is promoted aggressively by men...yet has managed to convince herself that the world is/was biased against women. But even Greenspan is prevented by polite convention from making the obvious point: women and men have different chromosomal structures, lifespans, organs, and hor…

The reason that people are berated for suggesting inherent differences is that there's so much more to the story. Almost nothing derives purely from genes; it's a complex interaction of genes, epigenetics (environmental and hereditary factors other than genes that control which genes are active), and socialization. Males and females are treated extremely differently from birth . Literally, in the very first day. Thus…

You don't link to actual molecular genetic research on behavior and sex differences. I will. Let's do two quick examples.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/15/science/studying-recent-hu...

  Gaining a deep insight into human evolution, researchers 
  have identified a mutation in a critical human gene as the 
  source of several distinctive traits that make East Asians 
  different from other races.

  The traits — thicker hair shafts, more sweat glands, 
  characteristically identified teeth and smaller breasts — 
  are the result of a gene mutation that occurred about 
  35,000 years ago, the researchers have concluded.
One pleiotropic mutation actually causes smaller breasts, among other things. For added visual impact, take a look at the EDAR transgenic mouse:

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10...

Wow! Across species, you can actually see that a single variant makes the mouse hair look East Asian. It's so crazily reductionist, it looks like what a troglodyte like Strom Thurmond might sketch if you had him draw an "Asian-looking mouse". Here's another great one, Fruitless:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitless_(gene)#Function

  Although many genes are known to be involved in male 
  courtship behavior, the fruitless gene has been considered 
  noteworthy because it exhibits sex-specific alternative 
  splicing. When females produce the male-spliced gene 
  product, they behave as males. Males that do not produce 
  the male-specific product do not court females and are 
  infertile.[1] ... The fruitless gene locus also controls 
  the expression of hundreds of other genes,[6] any subset of 
  which may actually regulate behavior.
We don't yet know the human analog of Fruitless, the master regulator of sex differences. But if it exists, it's a good bet that it's on the Y or X chromosomes.

Point: it's not all super-complex gene-environment interactionism that we'll never understand[1]. Indeed, as Fruitless or the EDAR story show, the genetic origins of complex gender differences and/or behavioral traits can be almost cartoonishly reductionist, attributable to a single master upstream regulator!

So: do you really want to bet it all on black, bet that genetics researchers aren't going to find governing loci for human gender differences and/or sexual orientation, bet that it's 100% social construction? Because if you know anything about where genomics is going, that is a bet you are going to lose.

[1] PS: I love it when people bring up epistasis, for god's sake, as a sort of catch-all neo-Lamarckianism, reached for like a drowning sailor flailing for a life preserver. Methylome much? Didn't think so.

EDIT: You know what? Let's actually go line by line on this thing.

  Males and females are treated extremely differently from 
  birth. Literally, in the very first day. Thus, it is nearly 
  impossible to actually prove scientifically that a 
  significant difference comes from genetic and biological 
  factors. 
Science: doing the impossible since ten years ago. Behold, gene expression analysis of innate male/female neurological differences before birth, known since 2003 (and well before):

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031022062408.ht...

  Using two genetic testing methods, they compared the 
  production of genes in male and female brains in embryonic 
  mice — long before the animals developed sex organs.

  To their surprise, the researchers found 54 genes produced 
  in different amounts in male and female mouse brains, prior 
  to hormonal influence. Eighteen of the genes were produced 
  at higher levels in the male brains; 36 were produced at 
  higher levels in the female brains.

  “We didn’t expect to find genetic differences between the  
  sexes’ brains,” Vilain said. “But we discovered that the 
  male and female brains differed in many measurable ways, 
  including anatomy and function.”
How about this little flail-for-a-life-preserver:

  There's research to suggest that the difference in spatial 
  reasoning is societal.
Which in turn links to this paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/08/19/1015182108.full...

This is almost a caricature of academia. To come to the conclusion that gender differences in spatial rotation ability are "culturally influenced"...they analyze two tribes in Northeast India on a "spatial puzzle" that has never been administered to anyone before (Figure 1). And in Table 1 the mean puzzle solving time for men in the "matrilineal" society is still actually lower than that for females, even though the medians point the other way.

Forget about the crimes against psychometry that such a test perpetrates. It goes without saying that they did not compute test-retest reliabilities or do a proper battery of spatial tests, let alone estimate IRT parameters for their single idiosyncratic "spatial" item. And this innocence of all aspects of item-response theory is confirmed by their supplementary information (http://goo.gl/ltysD).

The more fundamental point is the lack of thinking. Not only does this study cut against the grain of literally hundreds of other datasets, it is intentionally designed to not be reproducible. Among other things, why else would one use such an obscure population? And why not use the standard Shepard/Metzler test, in which one is actually mentally rotating two objects and seeing if they correspond? One can programmatically vary the rotation parameter to increase the difficulty, and Shepard famously even observed that reaction time varies linearly with rotation angle (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-imagery/mental-rota...), as if people were actually rotating the objects slowly in their heads.

Anyway. You know what is reproducible? Let's consult this handy meta-analysis of 70 studies...

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10648-012-9215-x

It shows a huge and reproducible spatial rotation ability difference between men and women. Don't believe me? Put up a web-based test with WebGL, pay participants, and reproduce the result for yourself. But something tells me that you may not really be interested in such studies. Instead:

  Furthermore, it ultimately doesn't matter that much. 
  Western society has decided that we want equality between 
  men and women. If that's not happening, then we've 
  committed ourselves to make it happen. 
Right. Comrade, here is where I bid you adieu. If men and women have fundamental neurological differences, which all the evidence indicates that they do, attempting to "close the gap" in mathematically & spatially challenging software engineering is a Sisyphean task. It is as futile as encouraging women to make it to the NBA and out-dunk the very best men. While there will be a Lisa Leslie or Cheryl Miller, there won't be very many of them, and that won't be the fault of men.

Because there can be no obligation to do that which cannot be done.

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#46
post #31

This is utterly devastating and long overdue. Sandberg makes $845 million in a year (at a company she didn't found), lives a charmed life, and is promoted aggressively by men...yet has managed to convince herself that the world is/was biased against women. But even Greenspan is prevented by polite convention from making the obvious point: women and men have different chromosomal structures, lifespans, organs, and hor…

yet has managed to convince herself that the world is/was biased against women.

Wait, are you saying it isn't/wasn't?

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#47
post #4

People should read (if they must) this in context of Greenspun's rather fanatical political ideology. His blog has plenty of samples, I don't want to link to it.

Fanatical political ideology? Greenspun's a moderate New England Republican.

That's getting to be a pretty rare thing these days, but it's hardly fanatical.

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#48
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the point Greanspun (not Greensburg) is trying is whether her brother confidence would have resulted in an A in a physics class at Caltech.

That may be his point. My point is that he stitches together falsehoods to evoke emotional responses in his readers.

Are you a natural language processing machine, or has reading too many O'Reilly books dented the part of your brain that allow humans to understand nuance?

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#49
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philip Greenspun used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire.

ah. so being methodically retarded is all part of his plan. how clever!

You're the autistic retard who can't understand normal fucking language.

Re: Philip Greenspun Reviews “Lean In”

#50
This is an interesting piecemeal critique of Sandberg's book but doesn't seem to look for or address any overall theme or thrust of the book. If there is no such theme, this itself is worthy of comment.

Yes, the bolts of which the bridge is assembled are rusted, but where, if anywhere, does it lead?

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