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US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

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Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#121

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

stfu wrote: post #104
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario True. My worry is that this is just the v0.1 and it is the shape of things to come. Desktop CNC milling machines are also getting better rapidly and can make metal parts. ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/otherfab/the-othermill-c... ). Designing this gun was clearly an asshole move, but how do you prohibit it now? Cory…

Designing this gun was clearly an asshole move I, for one, welcome any asshole moves that make governments afraid of their citizens. DefDist's Bitcoin: 1Gb5GNxrVGMT8e9uoJ8CmamrdVz9o8fAEa ( http://defdist.org/bitcoin/ )

A typically and uniquely American response. The main problem that you have now is that your citizens are afraid of each other's sidearms. The government, not so much.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#122

Post by hga »

bnc932 wrote: post #84

Unless I'm missing something, you will still need to purchase ammo to use in your 3D-printed gun, or else it will be useless. Are the sales of ammunition in the US completely unregulated?

Almost. Federal law has age limits, 18 except for 21 for handgun ammo. Mail order is entirely unregulated except of course requiring an ORD-M sticker and ground shipment.

Some states have regulations, from one outfit I buy from they would be California, Delaware, D.C., Illinois, Massachusetts, New York and Ohio, they warn you to check your state's laws before buying. Which leaves out a few of the worst states like New Jersey and includes one mostly OK state, Ohio (worst thing about it, unique in the nation, is that in a self-defense case the burden of proof is on you, but it otherwise has shall issue CCW et. al.).

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#123

Post by hga »

hfsktr wrote: post #105
bnc932 wrote: post #84

Unless I'm missing something, you will still need to purchase ammo to use in your 3D-printed gun, or else it will be useless. Are the sales of ammunition in the US completely unregulated?

When I worked at a place that sold ammo as far as I can remember we didn't have to track anything special. Guns had all kinds of tracking and restrictions, magazine sizes had restriction (for at least 5 states) but ammo seemed to be just fine. Since it was an internet store most of the orders were CC but even then we'd have the address we shipped to but it isn't like the ATF came in and asked about ammo. They would a…

As the article indicates, Wal-Mart's limits are only due to the severe, we've never seen anything like it before, post-Newton ammo shortage. My other comment in this subthread addresses the existing limits as I know them.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#124

Post by rbanffy »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #91
smsm42 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Nobody was threatened with this, nobody will ever be threatened with this. This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario. If you think anybody with this prototype can threaten public safety you are badly mistaken. The idea that any time anything new happens the government should jump in and prohibit it until it is proven safe is exactly why politicians like t…

> This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario True. My worry is that this is just the v0.1 and it is the shape of things to come. Desktop CNC milling machines are also getting better rapidly and can make metal parts. ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/otherfab/the-othermill-c... ). Designing this gun was clearly an asshole move, but how do you prohibit it now? Cory…

> My worry is that this is just the v0.1 and it is the shape of things to come

I don't see how 3D printers will be able to make undetectable bullets. There are not many ways to do a bullet that doesn't involve metals. Maybe a two-stage self-propelled plastic bullet could do the trick.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#125

Post by travisby »

conanbatt wrote: post #103
lucian1900 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you can appreciate that most of the world considers the American obsession with guns absurd :) Most countries have strict gun laws and the people are fine with that. Banning 3D gun models is still stupid though, especially in a country with such high gun availability.

But there is a record. A printed 3D gun has no serial number or identification. Someone gets shot and killed with one, and there is no trace.

We don't have a national gun registry; there's no "trace" now.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#126

Post by travisby »

shitlord wrote: post #48
Schlaefer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing new, only the newly digitized weapon de jour is changing. Remember back in the nineties when exporting encryption was the hot topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy#Criminal_in...

The only actual difference being that cryptography never killed anyone...

And neither has a plastic gun.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#127

Post by dllthomas »

zero_intp wrote: post #106
gjulianm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that 3D-printed-guns should be controlled because, even when I'd like to think that everybody is responsible and there isn't need for control, I know there are dumb or bad people who can harm themselves and others using this. I think that every gun (3D printed or not) should be controlled because of that same reason. Now, how can we control it? I don't really know. I'm not for DRM. I'm not for controlling 3D…

>The fact that 3D printed guns control is infeasible doesn't mean that leaving them uncontrolled is a good idea. Actually, that is exactly what it means. Infeasibility is a good place to stop, as it means that what you are doing is not reasonably possible.

I think there was some semantic mismatch here. The fact that something is infeasible means that it should not be the option selected. The fact that something is infeasable says nothing about whether it would be desirable granted feasibility. I am fairly confident you and the parent comment's author agree on both these points.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#128

Post by hga »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #113
gadders wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the fact they're metal. I don't think (but I could be wrong) that a design for a plastic bullet has been perfected.

Rubber bullets have killed people before, and I reckon rubber bullets would be as deadly as any other at close range.

Good point, and a blank is deadly at contact range. And the gun is aptly named after the WWII Liberator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator

The objective of such crude and limited guns is to enable you to procure better ones, although of course this one is also an initial proof of concept, plus I gather intended to work though such issues as this takedown (I've read the guy or people behind this believe they've jumped through the required hoops to allow Internet publication).

Although I'll note conventional ammo needs a metal case; there has been work on caseless ammo but it's not gotten beyond R&D, the G11 probably went the furthest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G11.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#129

Post by dllthomas »

tomjen3 wrote: post #108
bane wrote: post #81

The government's stated reason for taking it down is that making weapons technology available for international download via the internet requires an ITAR license [1]. If he had simply blocked international IP addresses from downloading it, it would not have fallen under the powers of the State Department. I've had to even do ITAR licensing on portable half-racks of off the shelf Dell servers. It's a pain, but it is…

First admentment triumphs ITAR, that is why you can export crypto programs.

My understanding was you can export crypto programs by executive order, not a court decision, which means not any kind of a clear determination of what trumps what...

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#130

Post by protomyth »

nayefc wrote: post #89
smsm42 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Nobody was threatened with this, nobody will ever be threatened with this. This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario. If you think anybody with this prototype can threaten public safety you are badly mistaken. The idea that any time anything new happens the government should jump in and prohibit it until it is proven safe is exactly why politicians like t…

You sound like a tea party Republican. Of course the government has to jump in when a 3D gun is being printed, whether it's safe or not!

He does sound quite sane on how the US government should act. Too, bad they spend so much time on theater as opposed to actual risks (heart disease, cancer, public debt, etc.).
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