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US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

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Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#111

Post by tomjen3 »

fleitz wrote: post #9
indrax wrote: post #3

http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-o... The letter references a number of items besides the printable gun, including "125mm BK-14M high-explosive anti-tank warhead" Which sounds rather closer to matching the intent of the munitions export regulations.

It's just another file on the defcad site, usual government confusion around files hosted on the internet. You can pick up most of what you need to know about anti-tank warheads from a Tom Clancy book, or any library book about shaped charges. For most people an anti-tank warhead is going to be useless in the context of how to disable a tank.

Can you expand on your last sentence?

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#112

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

smsm42 wrote: post #71
huhtenberg wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that one can carry it through the airport security easily enough. It's not that it's printed, it's the fact that it's printed in plastic .

Have you been to any US airport recently? These guys grab my freaking nuts and touch me in places that usually only myself and my wife are allowed to access. And you say it'd be easy to get through them a piece of a size of a large brick without them noticing? Do you know what mayhem an explosive of a similar volume could create? Something does not add up here with your theory.

Are you kidding? Airport security breaches are so commonplace that they don't always merit news coverage anymore. Here, another TSA pen-test failure. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/08/us-usa-security-ai...

These are just the ones we hear about, and don't include incidences of undetected contraband carried by passengers, unwittingly and intentionally.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#113

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

gadders wrote: post #107
misnome wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a different issue. Smuggling a small bullet past any security has got to be way easier than an entire gun.

Apart from the fact they're metal. I don't think (but I could be wrong) that a design for a plastic bullet has been perfected.

Rubber bullets have killed people before, and I reckon rubber bullets would be as deadly as any other at close range.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#114

Post by bane »

tomjen3 wrote: post #108
bane wrote: post #81

The government's stated reason for taking it down is that making weapons technology available for international download via the internet requires an ITAR license [1]. If he had simply blocked international IP addresses from downloading it, it would not have fallen under the powers of the State Department. I've had to even do ITAR licensing on portable half-racks of off the shelf Dell servers. It's a pain, but it is…

First admentment triumphs ITAR, that is why you can export crypto programs.

Nope, public safety trumps free speech.

You don't have to register with the State Department anymore and it's been loosened up a bit, but you still have to register with Commerce now and there's still restrictions.

http://www.bis.doc.gov/encryption/default.htm

Here's a nice article summarizing the current status

http://encryption_policies.tripod.com/us/rubinstein_1200_sof...

(not that I disagree with you in principle, just that the reality is not so cut and dry)

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#115

Post by hga »

nostromo wrote: post #13

"While I am as impressed as anyone with 3-D printing technology and I believe it has amazing possibilities," said California state senator Leland Yee (D-San Francisco/San Mateo), "we must ensure that it is not used for the wrong purpose with potentially deadly consequences. I plan to introduce legislation that will ensure public safety and stop the manufacturing of guns that are invisible to metal detectors and that…

"stop the manufacturing of guns that are invisible to metal detectors"

Hate to interject a fact here, but this is one of many reasons RKBA types don't respect gun grabbers: their gross ignorance, of which Yee is a choice example. There's already a Federal Undetectable Firearms Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undetectable_Firearms_Act_of_19...):

"The Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 (Pub.L. 100–649, H.R. 4445, 102 Stat. 3816, enacted November 10, 1988) makes it illegal to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any firearm that is not detectable by walk-through metal detectors or has major components that do not generate an accurate image when subjected to inspection by airport x-ray machines."

ADDED: and I've read the design includes a metal insert to satisfy this law.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#116

Post by Spooky23 »

aneth4 wrote: post #79
smsm42 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Nobody was threatened with this, nobody will ever be threatened with this. This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario. If you think anybody with this prototype can threaten public safety you are badly mistaken. The idea that any time anything new happens the government should jump in and prohibit it until it is proven safe is exactly why politicians like t…

How is it not a threat to have guns that can go through metal detectors, which we use in all sorts of government and transportation locations to prevent shootings? Even if this particular prototype is bulky, clearly the technology will advance. The idea that we should only act when there is an "actual threat" when a threat is clearly on its way is absurd. Good government anticipates and prevents threats to public saf…

Bullets are metal.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#117

Post by hga »

ck2 wrote: post #32

What's going to be hilarious is when the NRA works against homemade guns because they don't actually represent gun owners but gun manufacturers and people finally start getting the point of lobbyists. Going to get some popcorn and watch y'all fight each other over who gets to have the most toys to accidentally kill their friends and family with.

Yeah, right, 5 million people belong to the NRA because they represent the interests of others. (ADDED: including my father, my oldest nephew, my brothers and myself.)

No, the National Shooting Sports Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Shooting_Sports_Founda...) is the "national trade association for the firearms industry that is based in Newtown, Connecticut in the United States. Formed in 1961, the organization has more than 7,000 members: firearms manufacturers, distributors, retailers, shooting ranges, sportsmen's clubs and media."

Here's the most recent thread where I brought this up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5662183

Note also this comment of mine: "[...] no gun or ammo manufactures rather obviously means no guns and ammo for us to shoot. We've very interested in their health, we're in the same boat, attack them, you attack us. And the NSSF does quite a bit for gun owners in a whole range of areas including the political, although their focus is of course on the industry."

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#118

Post by hga »

lucian1900 wrote: post #60
duncan_bayne wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I just upvote the first line of your reply?

Surely you can appreciate that most of the world considers the American obsession with guns absurd :) Most countries have strict gun laws and the people are fine with that. Banning 3D gun models is still stupid though, especially in a country with such high gun availability.

And we find it absurd that after around a quarter billion disarmed people were killed by their own governments in the 20th century so many didn't learn anything from it.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#119

Post by npongratz »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #95
huhtenberg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put it in a bag, obviously. As a bonus, you redesign it into larger number of smaller pieces and spread them over several bags. You can stick your head in a sand as much as you want, but this is a game-changing development. If one can print a working gun, one can conceivably print other interesting things that to date were assumed to only exist in metal, the assumption that was the foundation of respective detect…

You put it in a bag, obviously. You mean the bag that goes through an X-Ray scanner which detects high density objects?

Indeed, the same bag that is mysteriously devoid of valuables after it has arrived at its destination.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#120

Post by hga »

toolslive wrote: post #41

right... so you're not allowed to download the plans for a gun, but you are allowed to buy a rifle for a 5 year old. For me, it seems this is just someone trying to protect their income.

Only parents can judge when children are mature enough to wield guns, and obviously some will get it wrong. My father started directly teaching me how to shoot when I was around 6. At 3, he would start taking me and later my siblings with him when he went hunting, so he started teaching by example at that age.

His guns were never locked up, our parents "gun proofed" us, taught us about danger and responsibility. They're from the Silent Generation, it was assumed back then. Heck, my father and many of his classmates would store their hunting guns in their school lockers so they wouldn't have to go back home before hunting after school.

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