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“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

news.consumerreports.org

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Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#111

Post by hyperbovine »

technoslut wrote: post #5
aviswanathan wrote: post #3

I can attest to this. Initially, I was extremely skeptical that the Tesla was anything great (electric cars haven't been the highlight of the automotive industry despite repeated attempts by established manufacturers). A few weeks ago, however, I had the chance to drive a family friend's Tesla and I was stunned. The Model S seems like a car from the future. Forget the fact that it's completely electric and charges vi…

After test driving a Tesla, I agree with much of what you said and one is the engine noise. I prefer sports cars and especially the sound of a V8/12. To me it's better than listening to music. I do understand that those purchasing a luxury vehicle have different expectations. Those in sedans appreciate cabin silence more than others.

It's a generational thing, I think. Two thoughts come to mind when I hear a V8/12 roaring down the street: "out-of-touch boomer" and "sea level rise". Literally nobody I know my age wants anything to do with those fossil burners. Electric (or something better, I hope) is the future.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#112

Post by jfb »

enraged_camel wrote: post #106
jfb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at $100k.

I think you are confused. Disruptive technologies can either start at the bottom of the market, or the top of the market. What makes them disruptive is that they serve the needs of a market segment that is currently not served very well by the incumbents.

Oh, no doubt I'm confused. But what market isn't being served that the Model S can waltz in on? It's an M5 with a linear torque curve that you can't take on long trips.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#113

Post by beat »

loceng wrote: post #81
[deleted] wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

A few reasons come to mind. Either they are planning to do something cool, though it's not public yet, or people who have the cool / life changing ideas will go off on their own to do them. The way you keep people like Musk in companies performing is giving them a large portion of ownership of their particular endeavor, so they benefit based on how successful they are - however then they're really just becoming inves…

GM already had this, with the Chevy Volt (a very interesting concept in its own right). But the problem is, despite a highly sensible transition approach from gasoline to electric, it's still a CHEVY. It's built to Chevy construction standards, Chevy aesthetics.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#114

Post by showerst »

startupstella wrote: post #58

I just drove a Tesla Model S last weekend. Here are my perceptions, as I was SUPER curious about the car before I drove it: Pros: 1) The drive is AMAZING. The car is quiet, it accelerates amazingly, and the regenerative braking is really cool. 2) It feels like the future. The huge computer screen is cool (but distracting, you can go on the internet at anytime). 3) The ability to get software updates all the time is c…

Good points, especially the condo thing! The range thing confuses me: How often do you drive more than 200 miles in the city? I live in DC which has lots of far-flung suburbs, and can still take a day-trip to Baltimore (an hour away) and back for around 100mi total.

I see this as a really attractive second car for wealthy commuters. If my spouse had a normal gasoline car we could use for long trips and hauling things, this would be a great daily driver, especially if I lived in suburbia and commuted for 30min a day where having a nice car would make a big difference in my life.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#115

Post by obviouslygreen »

127001brewer wrote: post #80
[deleted] wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

The real question to me is why are [Apple] not doing anything half as cool as what Musk has done in the past 10 years. I don't understand: what hasn't Apple done that isn't "half as cool"? Clearly, the iPad alone is a significant product that has literally changed the computing industry.

"Cool," perhaps, but not even vaguely innovative. It doesn't change any business models, it doesn't bypass anything or make any real changes, it's just a big iPhone (or, really, an iPod Touch). It hasn't "changed the computing industry." It's introduced a new line of the same products we had before.

"Let's make a bigger one" was a really great idea, but it's not really in the same league.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#116

Post by hyperbovine »

orangethirty wrote: post #70
acchow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me it's better than listening to music. I humbly submit that you haven't listened to the right music.

Music hath nothing over Ferrari V12 engines. May I present the sounds of a Ferrari Formula 1 V12 from 1994 . Turn up your speakers. Get a hair brush ready. All of your body hair will stand up as the wonderful sound of God's engine crawls up under your skin and makes your essence tingle in pleasure. You might want to smoke a cigarette afterwards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBXUOomynxw

Sounds like a bumblebee completing digestion of a large burrito.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#117

Post by freyr »

jfb wrote: post #50
enraged_camel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But electric cars aren't a disruptive technology. Of course they are. They work completely differently from ICE cars and even hybrids to solve the same problem (transportation). That's the definition of a disruptive technology.

Not at $100k.

Wrong. By that logic, you wouldn't have considered cell phones as disruptive because they initially cost around $9,000 (inflation adjusted). The same for PCs, and pretty much any disruptive technology.

That's one of the central points in the aforementioned book Innovator's Dilemma. Disruptive technologies often start out as expensive products that only attract a small segment of early adopters. This leads established players to ignore them. But new technology often holds greater potential for improvement (easy gains in existing technology have already been tapped). With time, cost is reduced while performance is increased, and it wins over the market.

Tesla may or may not end up being disruptive. But price certainly doesn't rule it out.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#118

Post by JPKab »

bhb916 wrote: post #61
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

There are a lot of reasons, as other commenters have pointed out, including all the existing capital that would have to be retooled or scraped. However, I don't think you can overlook the damage the bailouts did. The Chrystler bailout in 1980 and the more recent GM bailout preserved the existing Detroit power structure. All of that talented labor pool and capital that would have been set free via liquidation instead…

I'm not saying that I agree with bailing out car companies, nor the 1980 bailout particularly, but the notion of "setting free" talented labor pool is a little absurd in the case of the 2008 financial meltdown. It wasn't GMs fault that the entire financial sector that customers require to purchase their products was detonated by AAA rated products that were not at all safe. It was the government's fault for not regulating the banks, as well as the rating firms for not evaluating them.

The engineers would have been let go into a horrifically bad labor market where demand for mechanical engineers is zero due to expensive and unavailable credit.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#119

Post by lh7777 »

startupstella wrote: post #58

I just drove a Tesla Model S last weekend. Here are my perceptions, as I was SUPER curious about the car before I drove it: Pros: 1) The drive is AMAZING. The car is quiet, it accelerates amazingly, and the regenerative braking is really cool. 2) It feels like the future. The huge computer screen is cool (but distracting, you can go on the internet at anytime). 3) The ability to get software updates all the time is c…

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

The points about charging apply to any electric vehicle, though, and that's where I have trouble seeing electric cars really taking off. The Tesla approach seems great if your only use case is up to 100 mile drives from home to somewhere else and back again the same day to a home where you can easily plug the car in (essentially the typical car commuter). That's got to be a reasonable market now, but I remember seeing a recent article about a strong trend (in younger generations) towards living close to work and not driving or at least driving much less. I definitely fall into that category, and while I do have a car, I only use it on weekends to take trips out of town -- generally to places out in the woods where there will never be charging stations and often far enough that I wouldn't trust a 200 mile range. Unless battery technology gets way better, I just don't see electric-only working for that kind of use case. The Volt makes a lot more sense to me since you always have a backup plan.

Regarding charging stations for urban dwellers, my building (like many new projects in the Seattle area, as I understand it) has a few parking spots that are with charging stations. I don't see them in use now, but if electric cars actually do take off, people are going to be fighting over those few spots.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#120

Post by bfe »

corresation wrote: post #110
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? The car being reviewed is $90,000. Are competitively priced vehicles really "mediocre"? The Tesla was not built independently. Most of its components come from the auto industry. Most of its innovations are auto-industry innovations.…

"Most of its components come from the auto industry" is incorrect. Tesla makes most of its components from scratch.
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