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Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

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Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#141

Post by scottkduncan »

jstalin wrote: post #50
scottkduncan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"These statistics represent the number of firearm background checks initiated through the NICS. They do not represent the number of firearms sold. Based on varying state laws and purchase scenarios, a one-to-one correlation cannot be made between a firearm background check and a firearm sale." I imagine the total's quite a bit lower than the stated figure since many of these background checks would be for transfers a…

Also keep in mind that one background check may represent the sale of several firearms. One additional data point - nearly 9 million guns were manufactured or imported into the US in 2010 alone: http://www.businessinsider.com/more-gun-stores-in-america-th...

From the same article, it says there were 16.5 million background checks during 2010. Perhaps the ratio between the number of new guns manufactured/imported into the U.S. is relatively stable with the number of background checks. If so, 168M background checks since 1993 would mean about 90M new guns in the United States during that period.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#142

Post by greedo »

longone wrote: post #93
greedo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many would be better off not watching any news or reading any newspapers. Even relying on the Internet makes things tough since there's a firehose of data, and this leads to confirmation bias having a huge affect.

Yes, I agree with that. Although I have to say that I think reading the news is far better than ever watching it. When you read it you can take your time with it and selectively choose what articles you want to read rather than having a bunch of crap thrown at you at a high pace.

Agreed. Unfortunately, we've proven remarkably vulnerable to video/film as a persuasive medium.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#143

Post by pessimizer »

bluedino wrote: post #42

Yet, cities like Chicago and Flint are setting new records for homicide rates, and the % of those committed by guns is at an all-time high.

You made this up, loosely based on the number of news stories that you've seen lately. Chicago's homicide rate is half of what it was in 1993.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#144

Post by corresation »

learc83 wrote: post #136
tome wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of deaths per baseball bat are far higher than the number of deaths per "assault weapon", making baseball bats deadlier by far. Wait, are you really claiming that a baseball bat is deadlier than an assault weapon?

Yes, per baseball bat. If you are looking at banning something because it causes deaths. You want to look at how many deaths are caused per item. Reducing the number of items by X will result in Y fewer deaths. Baseball bats kill more people per baseball bat than do "assault weapons". What other reason could you have for banning something other than reducing harm. Looking strictly at the numbers banning baseball bats…

Baseball bats kill more people per baseball bat than do "assault weapons".

What font of imaginary statistics are you pulling this ludicrous claim from? Do you know how many hundreds of millions of baseball bats there are in the United States? If we're discussing the confused, exaggerated stats that originally kicked this off, add in the billions of other "club-like" objects in circulation.

You are making absolutely ridiculous claims.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#145

Post by jack-r-abbit »

Taylorious wrote: post #103
ebbv wrote: post #45

Of course it is. All violent crime is down. That has nothing to do with the fact that kids are still accidentally getting shot. I propose a new law; if a child (under 18) is found in possession of a gun the gun owner is fined $50,000. If the gun's ownership cannot be established, the parents or legal guardians are fined $50,000 instead. People might be a little more serious about locking up their guns and not letting…

What a silly law. Why don't we fine people $50,000 every time they do anything irresponsible or dangerous. Surely that would make our society safe and responsible! Seriously, no one is going to pay heed to this law because how would you ever get caught? No one thinks their kid is going to get into their guns, if they did they would do something to prevent it. I can't believe you actually suggest that someone would ca…

Exactly. I grew up with guns in the house. My dad would take us out shooting all the time. But as a kid, I would never even think of going into my dad's room without permission. And if I did venture in there, I certainly would not have touched the rifle he kept under the bed or the .357 he kept in the sock drawer. It was called respect. Respect for authority. Respect for the fire arms. Respect. We have a lack of that these days.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#146

Post by bcoates »

ebbv wrote: post #45

Of course it is. All violent crime is down. That has nothing to do with the fact that kids are still accidentally getting shot. I propose a new law; if a child (under 18) is found in possession of a gun the gun owner is fined $50,000. If the gun's ownership cannot be established, the parents or legal guardians are fined $50,000 instead. People might be a little more serious about locking up their guns and not letting…

It's not across-the-board illegal for a child to possess a gun in the US, although it varies by state.

Age-based gun restrictions are usually about non-parents selling or giving guns to minors, or carrying in public without adult supervision.

Firearms accidents are not a common cause of death; according to the CDC they amount to about 1% of all accidental deaths of young people.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/deaths_2010_release.pdf

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#147

Post by grey-area »

Homicide rates in the US are still significantly higher than other developed nations, so there's a long way to go:

    US 4.8 per 100,000 in 2012
    UK 1.2
    France 1.1
    Germany 0.8
    Japan 0.4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

I wonder why this paper doesn't use the statistics from 2012, which show an uptick to 4.8?

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#148

Post by runjake »

corresation wrote: post #128
runjake wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many households a firearm has one single purpose, which is to kill or maim (given that hunting is rare). Kill or maim criminal intruders (given that murderers are rare). I'm not sure where in Canada you are, but hunting is far from rare in Canada and most areas of the US.

but hunting is far from rare in Canada 5% of Canadians hunt. That qualifies as pretty rare to me. I don't know what the percentage is in the US, but just gut feeling is that there's a wide gap between gun ownership and hunting.

It doesn't to me. You're factoring in all Canadians of all ages (newborn->elderly, men, women) in all areas. 1 in 20 of every single human being regardless of age/gender seems pretty common in context.

If I were to perform the same sort of blanket percentage on Americans that actually watch baseball games regularly, I bet I'd reach a similar percentage. That doesn't mean that baseball fans are rare.

A citation for your 5% figure would be nice, because it might contain some meaningful context to lay a better picture than it does by itself.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#149

Post by mikegotroot »

tome wrote: post #105
ownagefool wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a baseball bat in my house and it's not there to hit balls but to hit anyone who attempts to come into my home without my permission. I doubt I'll ever need to use it, but there you go, it's one single purpose is to "maim or kill", which in reality is actually protection and I'd be happy with fear itself being the deciding factor. I don't come down on either side on gun control, they're mostly banned here in t…

You are correct, but it's a matter of degree. It's much, much easier to maim or kill with a gun than with a baseball bat and that's why I'm glad no one has guns in the UK. If someone comes at me with a baseball bat I can run away. If someone comes at me with a gun, I'm dead.

Not to belittle your point, but you're not necessarily dead if someone comes at you with a gun. Many factors dictate if the shooting will be fatal. For example, in far too many cases police officers and others defending themselves have had to fire multiple shots to disable or kill an attacker. And in some cases have failed. So you might not be dead.

With that said, people do have guns in the UK, just not law abiding people. Gun crime is apparently up 89% the UK since the ban as well, so there are guns in the UK:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-viol...

So the points being:

1) you may survive an attack with a firearm, according to the OP it appears a majority of gunshot victims do (30k shot vs 8k killed in the US) 2) there are guns in the UK, and more gun crime since the ban went into effect. Infer from that what you will.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#150

Post by AnthonyMouse »

rgraham wrote: post #126
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AK-47 is a select fire fully automatic rifle. It has been illegal to import or manufacture fully automatic rifles for civilian use for decades.

AKs in the US have been semi-automatic for a long time. It takes an experienced gunsmith to restore fully automatic firing to an imported AK. They have been sold this way in the US for decades and are a cheaper alternative to the AR-15.

Then it isn't an AK-47 in the same way that an AR-15 isn't an M16.

The point is, nobody is making or importing full auto AK-47s and selling them to gang members. A semiautomatic-only AK-47 is just the functional equivalent of a hunting rifle.

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