You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies. • Hacker News Board

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#91

Post by eridius » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:33 PM UTC

rmah wrote: post #47

eridius wrote: post #19

The author of this post comes across as a raging jackass. I'd never heard of Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome until I read the other post, but it perfectly describes my life. I've never really known how to describe just how difficult it is to get up in the morning, but it is really, truly difficult. Joe Conway, you said in your post that "every single one of your actions is controllable". If you truly believe this, you s…

Does flying to a different timezone incapacitate you or do you adjust in a few days? Does daylight savings time cause you problems or do you adjust like everyone else? If you can adjust to those things, you can adjust your "normal" sleep cycle and you don't have this rare condition. The reason you have a hard time getting up "early" is that you go to sleep too late. Just go to sleep an hour earlier than "normal". Too…

What makes you qualified to pass judgement?

For reference, according to http://www.end-your-sleep-deprivation.com/delayed-sleep-phas... these are the official criteria for diagnosing Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome:

1. Patient has chronic difficulty falling asleep at desired time to meet their daily schedules - work, school, etc. Typically patient reports inability to sleep before 2 to 6 am.

2. The patient reports having dealt with these symptoms for at least six months, mostly for multiple years.

3 When not required to maintain their schedule--i.e. weekends, holidays, etc.--patient sleeps without difficulty, and will awaken spontaneously after a sleep period of normal length.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#92

Post by sp332 » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:33 PM UTC

DrewAllyn wrote: post #86

michaelochurch wrote: post #43

What a self-righteous douchebag. I'm a fully "respectable" 10-to-5:30 sleeper and it doesn't make me morally superior to anyone else. It's a combination of biology, age, and lifestyle circumstances, two of which I have no control over and one which I have little control over. No one likes waking up in the morning. That's not even true. That's a false-misery play: make people feel bad by presenting the view that every…

They agreed to attend meetings when they accepted the job offer. If you aren't capable of doing what is deemed necessary for your job (whether its actually necessary or not is a separate question) then maybe you are in the wrong job.

Right, and you shouldn't feel guilty for choosing a job that suits you better.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#93

Post by dools » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:33 PM UTC

anonymoushn wrote: post #24

jaggederest wrote: post #11

Light therapy. Or, you know, modafinil works too. The answer isn't always 'man up', neither is it 'I am a victim'. Just treat it and move on with your life. You're not a hero for getting to work on time, but neither are you a villain for being late.

Modafinil is not a long-term solution as regular use causes tolerance.

Sounds like the OP could use some regular modafinil.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#94

Post by _delirium » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:34 PM UTC

3am wrote: post #10

Just a quibble: I think Englishman Alan Turing deserves a lot of credit for inventing computing. The US has done a lot with innovating it. Otherwise a good rant. edit: credit also to Babbage and Lovelace (also English)

Judging by the fact that the word "sissies" is in the title, I don't think Joe Conway has any interest in giving some gay person any credit. He's a real man, you know.

Plus, attacking other people as lazy doesn't mean you yourself have to put in the work to familiarize yourself with history before making historical claims. Going to the library is too hard for my generation.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#95

Post by eridius » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:34 PM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #70

rmah wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does flying to a different timezone incapacitate you or do you adjust in a few days? Does daylight savings time cause you problems or do you adjust like everyone else? If you can adjust to those things, you can adjust your "normal" sleep cycle and you don't have this rare condition. The reason you have a hard time getting up "early" is that you go to sleep too late. Just go to sleep an hour earlier than "normal". Too…

Well in my case, both of those things do really screw me over pretty hard. I have to allocate a couple days to reset my schedule on any timezone change or the 'spring forward'. That said, it's not about going to bed earlier, at least for me. You can't solve it that way. What you have to do is stay up later and later, and eventually loop over to a 'normal' time. This involves several days of non-traditional sleeping h…

Looping over is precisely what I do any time I have to fly east (flying west is a lot easier). It's not fun, but it sure beats the alternative.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#96

Post by chc » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:34 PM UTC

xradionut wrote: post #90

michaelochurch wrote: post #43

What a self-righteous douchebag. I'm a fully "respectable" 10-to-5:30 sleeper and it doesn't make me morally superior to anyone else. It's a combination of biology, age, and lifestyle circumstances, two of which I have no control over and one which I have little control over. No one likes waking up in the morning. That's not even true. That's a false-misery play: make people feel bad by presenting the view that every…

It's not really a rant about sleep habits. It's a rant about excuses and not meeting commitments.

I don't think so. It's a rant about people who don't want to do hard things. Go reread — the overall thrust is not "keep your promises," but rather "do hard things and don't complain about them." He says this pretty explicitly several times.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#97

Post by format » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:35 PM UTC

3am wrote: post #67

nostrademons wrote: post #25

Wow. I don't feel guilty for over-sleeping. I've worked out a life for myself where people don't care that I sleep until 11:00. I simply don't schedule meetings or appointments for the morning, or if there's absolutely one that can't be avoided, I go to bed early and set an alarm clock to wake up for it. It is not being a sissy to know your limitations and preferences and to work around them. If you make a commitment…

Maybe I read it differently than you, but I read the article as spurred by someone that was habitually late for meetings. More generally, excuse making. Not any particular sleep cycle. When saying "If you make a commitment to another person, you should keep it." I see you as being in agreement with the post I just read.

I read the original article as a PSA. It was basically saying "this thing exists and you shouldn't feel bad if you have it." I don't see where it was making excuses.

If you recognize that this is a real problem, you can take steps to fix it. Things like shifting your schedule or regulating blue light. Not just "don't be lazy" or "get off Reddit", that sort of attitude doesn't help.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#98

Post by err_badprocrast » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:35 PM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #73

Anderkent wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than starting with modafinil, melatonin should probably be the first step. It might help, and people do not report tolerance after prolonged use the way they do for modafinil.

Melatonin is fine if it works for you, and you find the right schedule to take it on, and you don't get terrible nightmares from it. Somehow I usually meet 2 of those criteria at a time.

> and you don't get terrible nightmares from it

Whoa, melatonin makes you dream? Sounds interesting. I can count on one hand the number of dreams I'm aware of having over the past 10 years.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#99

Post by pasquinelli » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:35 PM UTC

thezoid wrote: post #78

pasquinelli wrote: post #5

your generation might be full of sissies, but my generation is kickass.

> but my generation is kickass Every generation thinks that. It's nothing new really.

it's hard to tell what's going on in a generation's head sometimes. but, at the very least, each generation says it thinks that.

Re: You should feel guilty for over-sleeping; or, my generation is full of sissies.

#100

Post by russelluresti » Tue, May 07, 2013, 9:36 PM UTC

3am wrote: post #67

nostrademons wrote: post #25

Wow. I don't feel guilty for over-sleeping. I've worked out a life for myself where people don't care that I sleep until 11:00. I simply don't schedule meetings or appointments for the morning, or if there's absolutely one that can't be avoided, I go to bed early and set an alarm clock to wake up for it. It is not being a sissy to know your limitations and preferences and to work around them. If you make a commitment…

Maybe I read it differently than you, but I read the article as spurred by someone that was habitually late for meetings. More generally, excuse making. Not any particular sleep cycle. When saying "If you make a commitment to another person, you should keep it." I see you as being in agreement with the post I just read.

You should read the original post referenced, because this article greatly misrepresents what that person said.

The original referenced material doesn't talk about making excuses. He talks about managing a real physical condition so that you don't miss meetings and don't have to make excuses. It's about understanding that having that condition doesn't make you lazy or a lesser person.