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Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

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Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#91

Post by binarysolo »

rayiner wrote: post #88
nl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is any relationship between the location of a country and corruption. Japan, Hong Kong and especially Singapore are rated as some of the least corrupt countries on earth[1], ahead of both the US and the UK. (South) Korea rates roughly the same as most of Europe, while China & Sri Lanka are roughly the same as Italy (hmm). India & Thailand were rated roughly the same as Greece. There seems to be a…

Italy and Greece: two countries that are on the verge of economic collapse as a result of corruption, tax avoidance, etc. Japan, Hong Kong, and Korea---three places with very strong U.S. and U.K. influence...

You're conflating a lot of things -- I'd hesitate before noting correlations to causation.

I'd consider viewing things under governmental structure, incentives, and the checks and balances in play than attributing any one culture or nation state to be some kind of paragon of virtue. Efficient governance is a luxury of first world countries, where enough people are capable and incentivized to play by the rules for it to work.

I do personally subscribe to freedom and the desire of the population for equitable governance and a level playing field for a better society, but that's a discussion for another time.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#92

Post by Nano2rad »

rayiner wrote: post #28
GuiA wrote: post #5

Is collusion more commonly accepted in some Asian cultures? I distinctly remember my grad school classes, where even by getting 95% I'd be dead last in the class rankings because all the Chinese/Indian students would get 98/99/100% on their assignments. I didn't really care about it, figuring that their studying habits were much more diligent than mine, until one time I arrived in the classroom 45 minutes early and f…

> Is collusion more commonly accepted in some Asian cultures? What do you think is the basis for the pervasive government corruption in asian countries? Do you think it's just a matter of coincidence?

One of the excuse of those who support corruption is that they are helping their friends. But there can be artificial friendship. On a survey or poll some years ago in India, those who supported corruption said it is way of introduction of businessman to a bureaucrat. Mario Puzo said mafia is friend of friends.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#93

Post by Nano2rad »

hpagey wrote: post #67
rayiner wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is collusion more commonly accepted in some Asian cultures? What do you think is the basis for the pervasive government corruption in asian countries? Do you think it's just a matter of coincidence?

Their is a well known saying in India, Indians steal in Dhoti (traditional indian pants), while westerners steal in suites. Corruption is prevalent in all parts of the world just the type of corruption changes. Wherever, power and money is involved, there is corruption.

That is the excuse in India to fight corruption. Everybody is fighting corruption, Indians are not. But if you think further, Spying is also cheating and corruption which is glorified everywhere.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#94

Post by virtualmic »

crimsonzagar wrote: post #85
ishansharma wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a sad thing. I wonder what effect this will have on India in long term!

What's interesting is that none of the IITians have spoken on this thread. You guys called it a goat and then wow'ed to say oh man see it is goat. That sounds so much like pure jealousy. If there is anything that has ever worked in education system of India - it is the IITs. That's one place which certainly has good karma, and I am proud about it. The question - is there cheating in internal exams of IITs? Check out…

I am an IITian, specifically from IITB. I can say for sure that the level of research in general is quite pathetic, except for one or two groups. The only thing IITs used to be good were, (in their early and mid years) to gather some good minds together and give them quite a bit of freedom and a nice environment (in the hostels and such) so that they can discuss their ideas, which they used to implement not while there in IIT, but after graduating.

However, in the recent years, the quality of these minds has become a bit questionable (this is purely anecdotal, no concrete proofs). One thing is for certain though, the amount of discussion which was there in years when each hostel room did not have its own computer was quite high, which now in the age of facebook and multiplayer games has reduced by a huge margin. As far as copying assignments is concerned, that is a pretty common phenomenon in case of general course assignments, unless one is really interested in that course and wants to learn.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#95

Post by nl »

rayiner wrote: post #88
nl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is any relationship between the location of a country and corruption. Japan, Hong Kong and especially Singapore are rated as some of the least corrupt countries on earth[1], ahead of both the US and the UK. (South) Korea rates roughly the same as most of Europe, while China & Sri Lanka are roughly the same as Italy (hmm). India & Thailand were rated roughly the same as Greece. There seems to be a…

Italy and Greece: two countries that are on the verge of economic collapse as a result of corruption, tax avoidance, etc. Japan, Hong Kong, and Korea---three places with very strong U.S. and U.K. influence...

I think you are missing the point. "pervasive government corruption" is no more or less likely to occur in Asian countries than anywhere else.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#96

Post by rayiner »

nl wrote: post #95
rayiner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy and Greece: two countries that are on the verge of economic collapse as a result of corruption, tax avoidance, etc. Japan, Hong Kong, and Korea---three places with very strong U.S. and U.K. influence...

I think you are missing the point. "pervasive government corruption" is no more or less likely to occur in Asian countries than anywhere else.

Are you even looking at the map you linked to? Do you not see the Asian countries (ex-Japan) colored in reds and dark oranges, while North America, Australia/New Zealand, and western Europe are in shades of yellow? The major Western economies have scores of 70+ (U.S., U.K., Germany, France, Australia), while the major Asian economies, ex-Japan, have scores in the 20's and 30's. South Korea straddles the two, with a score in the 50's.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#97

Post by paulhauggis »

Sven7 wrote: post #76
paulhauggis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we are going to ban facts now? The problem is that it does seem to be cultural. In every one of my computer science classes, students from India almost always shared answers on the test, copied each others' homework, and felt there was no problem with it.

I always wonder what happens to all these honest Americans once they get into Wall Street. Or these days Silicon Valley where keeping people addicted to social feeds and video streams is making an honest living. Let not even talk about the guys who sold the rest of the world on WMD's.

2 wrongs don't make a right. If we choose to ignore a problem that continues to happen because we want to be more PC, it will never stop.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#98

Post by ameyakarve »

I can attest that it is a very cultural thing in India. Ethically, it becomes a question like everyone else is doing it, so it isn't cheating; When I started with university, I had tried to make it a point to do my assignments by myself. Yet, it became the case that I spent more time and got worse grades that most people around. I continued with this for a while, until the point where I stopped giving a fuck about my grades; I have used someone else's work ever since. It is a lot like what Lance Armstrong said about the cycling doping scandal. It is wrong, but not unfair; Unfortunately, this is the way it works.
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