Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam? • Hacker News Board

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#31

Post by obviouslygreen » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:05 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #24

obviouslygreen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given all the anecdotes around here offering the same experience, I'm interested in this too. If it is a cultural thing, I'd say two things: 1. It makes sense. A lot of sense. In the real world, it's far more useful to be able to collaborate effectively than to always adopt an adversarial or competitive attitude. 2. It should be addressed openly. Personally, I think a more collaborative environment would help a lot o…

I think the Code Jam incident is an example of knowingly and willfully cheating. It is obvious that you are supposed to be competing individually. Even in the event that that isn't obvious, why signup for 3 accounts? Why not just signup for a team account and play as a team?

I was more replying to the other post (as Google hasn't actually said anything yet), but if it is as presented, then yeah, there's no excuse for it.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#32

Post by obviouslygreen » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:08 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #27

GuiA wrote: post #5

Is collusion more commonly accepted in some Asian cultures? I distinctly remember my grad school classes, where even by getting 95% I'd be dead last in the class rankings because all the Chinese/Indian students would get 98/99/100% on their assignments. I didn't really care about it, figuring that their studying habits were much more diligent than mine, until one time I arrived in the classroom 45 minutes early and f…

When I was a grad student (in America) a couple of decades ago, I was involved in two seminars/roundtable discussions that stayed with me. One was on sexual harassment- I'll save that for another thread. The other was a cultural awareness 'sharing.' For context, this was around the time of the Anita Hill testimony regarding Clarence Thomas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Hill and the Tianaman Square protest http:/…

Thanks, this is interesting. It seems to me there's an excellent middle ground that could help American students get a more social (and potentially effective) education, and also encourage some focus on individual achievement in Chinese and possibly other Asian cultures.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#33

Post by ishansharma » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:11 PM UTC

This is terrible. I am from India and I know how deeply copying is rooted in the brains of students here. Basically, all parents (and thus children) care about is marks. So, students learn copying and tend to copy all the assignments. Plug, we have professors who are good for nothing and accept this equally.

Recently, I made a small web app and got lowest marks in class for project. In another project, when I told my idea to professor, she was all like, "this is too small, increase the scope!" So, my idea of attendance tracker expended to "Learning Management System". I used WordPress as foundation for app and added plugins. Instead of testing anything, professor asked, "What does "collapse menu" do?" Nothing else asked.

Other people who copied it all and shied crappy command line "hospital management system" and other things scored way higher than me.

While all people do not copy here, copying is not checked at all and this indirectly encourages it. India is worst place to be a programmer right now. At least in college. I don't think companies are any better. I had a friend certified as "Java Programmer" for a crappy one day program.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#34

Post by fmax30 » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:22 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #30

fmax30 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine this scenario ,It is round 1C . A talented programmer started competing there are only 20 minutes to go. He solves the Small and Large test cases for Problem A ,and only the small for problem C. But Alas ! his rank is 1002 , he doesn't qualify even though on topcoder he is in the top 200's.

He took a huge risk by starting with only 20 minutes to go. I would say his failure there lies more with himself than with the 3 cheaters.

Maybe that guy had a big exam or a build going on that day. I am just saying :).

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#35

Post by vignesh_vs_in » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:24 PM UTC

ishansharma wrote: post #33

This is terrible. I am from India and I know how deeply copying is rooted in the brains of students here. Basically, all parents (and thus children) care about is marks. So, students learn copying and tend to copy all the assignments. Plug, we have professors who are good for nothing and accept this equally. Recently, I made a small web app and got lowest marks in class for project. In another project, when I told my…

Well yours may be the typical scenario. I had the slightly opposite experience.

I built Warehouse management system with RFID. i bought a RFID reader and few cards, connected with serial port to PC and basically had a checkout check-in system in place (for the curious, Java is the language, sadly i lost the original source code :( still have the RFID reader tough ).

On the demo day the professor was so happy with my project, the first question e asked was "From where did u buy this project?" . He was very reluctant to believe that projects of such scope can be built by students. If the professors are so sure the projects are copied, why do they even grade them?.

Ya and most of the students in my class bought projects(C Compiler, Steganography etc,) for few thousand rupees and got equally good marks (Hey , i got the top mark ;) .

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#36

Post by pitiburi » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:31 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #28

GuiA wrote: post #5

Is collusion more commonly accepted in some Asian cultures? I distinctly remember my grad school classes, where even by getting 95% I'd be dead last in the class rankings because all the Chinese/Indian students would get 98/99/100% on their assignments. I didn't really care about it, figuring that their studying habits were much more diligent than mine, until one time I arrived in the classroom 45 minutes early and f…

> Is collusion more commonly accepted in some Asian cultures? What do you think is the basis for the pervasive government corruption in asian countries? Do you think it's just a matter of coincidence?

Are you then implying that there is no corruption in the USA?

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#37

Post by swampthing » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:33 PM UTC

To all the Indians here who are saying collusion / cheating is deeply ingrained in the culture - I'm just curious, is this true at IITs as well? Those schools are generally well-regarded, so I'd be interested to hear what things are like there.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#38

Post by prezjordan » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:36 PM UTC

Pretty frustrating to read this.

Question for HN: Many CodeJam competitors (this is not limited to CodeJam, though) do these competitions so often that they essentially have a library of similar problems and solutions to reference. In which case, a top competitor can identify a similar problem, copy the source code from his previous solution, and slightly modify it to the problem's specifics.

Is this considered cheating? It's incredibly frustrating for a competitor like me - who makes it into Round 2 by the skin of his teeth (rank 768 in round 1A) - to see the top guys (whose names I recognize!) finish problems in minutes. Is it possible for them to just be that fast? Maybe, but it's well-known that many copy solutions from previous problems.

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#39

Post by virtualmic » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:39 PM UTC

crimsonzagar wrote: post #22

From what it seems, problem of corruption in India is not limited to the Government or big corps alone. It is a deep seated cultural issue, at grass roots level, in the tiniest of day-to-day transactions and actions. And I am afraid to say it starts with the proud claim of calling everything a jugaad [1] in the first place - a hack or easy way out which lends to itself a cheap name. While a portion of jugaad, a pride…

You are the first person whom I have encountered who acknowledges the grass-root and "common man" level of corruption in India.

In the last 5 years or so, I am finding this corruption becoming even more widespread even, as you rightly pointed out, in the tiniest of the day-to-day transactions!

Re: Indian Coders Found Cheating in Google Code Jam?

#40

Post by [deleted] » Sun, May 05, 2013, 4:39 PM UTC

crimsonzagar wrote: post #22

From what it seems, problem of corruption in India is not limited to the Government or big corps alone. It is a deep seated cultural issue, at grass roots level, in the tiniest of day-to-day transactions and actions. And I am afraid to say it starts with the proud claim of calling everything a jugaad [1] in the first place - a hack or easy way out which lends to itself a cheap name. While a portion of jugaad, a pride…

[deleted]