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Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

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Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#71

Post by HunterV »

doktrin wrote: post #57
HunterV wrote: post #15

As someone who grew up living all around the world I have this to say: Watch the move "Lost in Translation" If you can deal with forever being isolated, even with friends, then by all means live overseas. You will always be an outsider, no matter how acclimated you become. If you're ok with that, then you'll be fine. Otherwise, stick to America, it really is an awesome country to live in.

Ugh. Really? I truly don't get the hype about that movie. They definitely got the visuals right, but a lot of it felt "off". Quite a few of the cultural stereotypes were awkwardly over-played too. Also, Japan is really a different bird when it comes to integration. Not all countries have the same jarring and visceral division between foreigners and local society.

It feels "off" because it's strange for Americans, who grow up in a culture that is made up of immigrants to understand that cultures with centuries of history aren't very accepting of people who are different.

Don't get me wrong, the international community is very accepting, even loving. But when you get to actual nationals, other than a few exceptions, you'll never be truly accepted.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#72

Post by gorrillamcd »

jballanc wrote: post #62

This has been my experience... > Your market value is higher elsewhere While true, it's also slightly simplistic. It's more than just market value. There's an American mindset that has its plusses and minuses (like any mindset), but the ability to combine the plusses of the American mindset (entrepreneurship, risk taking, "fake it until you make it") with the plusses of foreign mindsets (in my case: high value on com…

#4 is very true. Many americans I know live in a bubble (a very scientific survey, I know). They only get news from the "outside world" filtered by the talking heads on TV (no matter the political persuasion). When I first came to Mexico, everyone thought I'd be kidnapped and ransomed the second I set foot in the country. I've never felt in danger the 4 years I've been here. Sure, there are some places (mainly Juarez and seedy parts of the border towns) that aren't safe at all, but Mexico is so much larger than those places. It might not be for everyone, sure, but living abroad at least temporarily is an experience that is bound to teach you a lot if you take it seriously and stop being a tourist.

Edit: Sorry, replied to the wrong comment, but it still applies somewhat.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#73

Post by graeme »

tptacek wrote: post #53
graeme wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where the bottom 10% live as well as the top 10% do in developing countries. You clearly have never lived abroad. Money goes further. I once lived in Cuba, for an internship. I had housing and food provided by my employer, they paid the family $800. I had $500 spending money on top of that. I lived like a KING. I've never been that rich in my life. People made my food, cleaning my room, cooked for me, did my laundry…

Just a note that you wrote your (predictable) "you clearly have never lived abroad" statement ~30 minutes after someone else made the same incorrect observation and was decisively corrected. I often wonder how and why that kind of comment happens here.

Good question, you've made me think. I wouldn't have said it in person (it would have been a question 'have you lived abroad?')

My brain took a statement which I thought was an error, and could have been based on lack of personal experience, then jumped to the conclusion that it was lack of personal experience.

Second, I made a logical error that I wouldn't have made face to face. Developing countries is a very broad term. So I think now there are countries where the quoted sentence is true, and some where is isn't.

In real life, I probably would have clarified which countries the OP had in mind (from subsequent discussions he clearly meant the poorer ones in the group 'developing countries')

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#74

Post by tptacek »

graeme wrote: post #73
tptacek wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note that you wrote your (predictable) "you clearly have never lived abroad" statement ~30 minutes after someone else made the same incorrect observation and was decisively corrected. I often wonder how and why that kind of comment happens here.

Good question, you've made me think. I wouldn't have said it in person (it would have been a question 'have you lived abroad?') My brain took a statement which I thought was an error, and could have been based on lack of personal experience, then jumped to the conclusion that it was lack of personal experience. Second, I made a logical error that I wouldn't have made face to face. Developing countries is a very broad…

:)

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#75

Post by HunterV »

barry-cotter wrote: post #70
HunterV wrote: post #15

As someone who grew up living all around the world I have this to say: Watch the move "Lost in Translation" If you can deal with forever being isolated, even with friends, then by all means live overseas. You will always be an outsider, no matter how acclimated you become. If you're ok with that, then you'll be fine. Otherwise, stick to America, it really is an awesome country to live in.

This is exaggerated but more or less correct. Depends on the country. You can live in an expat bubble but the downside is that people leave all the time . And you will never be national local but after long enough you can be city local if that makes sense to you. Requires actually acclimating, learning the language and implicit norms etc. I'm not even remotely there yet but living in Shanghai beats living in Ireland.

It was in a sense a generalization to shed light on a larger point in that acclimating to cultures isn't about you, it's about the people who are a part of the culture accepting you.

I also don't want to discourage anyone from leaving their culture to try something new. It's an amazing truly eye opening experience.

Just be aware of the challenges you face.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#76

Post by tptacek »

clicks wrote: post #69
tptacek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rayiner addressed that point directly: first, it's a first-world myth that recent college graduates in the US would be living in anything resembling poverty by world standards (again with the running water, flushing toilets, electricity, inspected produce, guaranteed emergency room health care); second, if your whole argument is that there might be more money abroad for a new grad, well sure , but don't romanticize t…

> the running water, flushing toilets, electricity, inspected produce, guaranteed emergency room health care You're still missing the point. You emphasize guaranteed emergency care, but what about general non-emergency healthcare costs in America? If it's +1 for guaranteed healthcare in America, it's +1 for India when you can actually practically afford some life-saving x-ray or some surgery operation that costs lite…

The life expectancy in India is 65.5 years. Less than 3% of Indian townships are served by water treatment plants.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#77

Post by seanmcdirmid »

greg5green wrote: post #51
yen223 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the worse part: salaries are much much lower in third-world nations - at least here in Malaysia - especially after considering currency conversion. To put this into perspective: median annual salary for software engineers in Malaysia is about RM45,000, which is $15,000 a year. A 'highly-paid' consultant might make about RM150,000 a year - all of $50,000 per annum.

Don't forget that Americans working overseas still have to pay the IRS!

We get a $90K blanket exemption + we can directly deduct whatever we pay for taxes in the country we are working in. So it usually works out to $0 + the expense of filing a tax form. Disclaimer: I am not a tax attorney and this shouldn't be taken as advice.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#78

Post by refurb »

jfoutz wrote: post #37
newbie12 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Our "poor" have televisions, air conditioning, cars, and homes. There's so much food in America that obesity is a major health issue. This is a profound success and departure from the normal human condition of misery. Please put down the Marxist textbook.

I'm just gonna throw this out there... "In sum, we estimate that, as of the beginning of 2011, about 1.46 million U.S. households with about 2.8 million children were surviving on $2 or less in income per person per day in a given month." http://npc.umich.edu/publications/policy_briefs/brief28/poli...

That's an interesting stat, but it confusing. Is this a case where people are not taking advantage of the social services offered? $2/day works out to $300 for a family of five.

This reminds me of Medicaid in the US. Something like 20% of the uninsured in America are actually qualified for free healthcare, but don't enroll.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#79

Post by barry-cotter »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43
newbie12 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Our "poor" have televisions, air conditioning, cars, and homes. There's so much food in America that obesity is a major health issue. This is a profound success and departure from the normal human condition of misery. Please put down the Marxist textbook.

> There's so much food in America that obesity is a major health issue. Sort of stupid. It actually costs money to eat healthy, which many people can't afford in the states (fresh fruits and vegetables, grocery store far away, no car, just by crap at the convenience store then). The US doesn't compare well to Europe on quality of life for those not in the middle class. Ya, they can afford some crap, but not what they…

If you fry frozen vegetables in a wok with butter or oil and some spices it is delicious, healthy and very, very cheap. Adding beans or mincemeat for protein still leaves it at very cheap. I can't speak to the education system or public transport system in the States but frozen vegetables are surely available in most convenience stores, yeah?

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#80

Post by 108 »

EGreg wrote: post #68

Being a big fish in a small pond has its perks. You can go for vacation to developing countries such as Thailand and live like a king. People would be willing to do whatever you want for money. Steak dinners would be $5. Obviously the internet lets you have much richer clients in Western countries subsidizing your lifestyle in developing countries. But leaving all your family and friends behind to live there might no…

There are Jews living in other parts of the world: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India * http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/24/bnei-menashe-move-t...
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