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Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

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Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#51

Post by greg5green »

yen223 wrote: post #28
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #3

I think the math is a bit wrong. Your money actually doesn't go much farther in Beijing, Bangkok, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur, etc... Some things might be cheaper (eating out) but many things will be more expensive (cars, iPads, decent clothes). You might be able to hire a driver for 2 or 3000 RMB a month in China, but you still have to buy the car for $4-50,000. At best, its basically a wash, and if you are American, yo…

Don't forget the worse part: salaries are much much lower in third-world nations - at least here in Malaysia - especially after considering currency conversion. To put this into perspective: median annual salary for software engineers in Malaysia is about RM45,000, which is $15,000 a year. A 'highly-paid' consultant might make about RM150,000 a year - all of $50,000 per annum.

Don't forget that Americans working overseas still have to pay the IRS!

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#52

Post by sneak »

The cost of living thing is very, very real. Have US customers, but don't fucking live here (I am in NYC to visit).

There are many places where you can have a much better standard of living than the US for the same price - including regular roundtrip airfare to visit your friends and family. There are frequently huge tax advantages, as well.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#53

Post by tptacek »

graeme wrote: post #34
rayiner wrote: post #7

I view with a deep distrust the new class of global capitalist that thinks we must inexorably become "global citizens." The western world didn't come from nowhere. People built it, and their successors should be able to reap the fruits of it, not have to flee to the developing world. I read an article the other day (it was in Forbes or maybe Business Week). Some American was talking about the investment opportunities…

>where the bottom 10% live as well as the top 10% do in developing countries. You clearly have never lived abroad. Money goes further. I once lived in Cuba, for an internship. I had housing and food provided by my employer, they paid the family $800. I had $500 spending money on top of that. I lived like a KING. I've never been that rich in my life. People made my food, cleaning my room, cooked for me, did my laundry…

Just a note that you wrote your (predictable) "you clearly have never lived abroad" statement ~30 minutes after someone else made the same incorrect observation and was decisively corrected. I often wonder how and why that kind of comment happens here.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#54

Post by graeme »

sliverstorm wrote: post #48
graeme wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where the bottom 10% live as well as the top 10% do in developing countries. You clearly have never lived abroad. Money goes further. I once lived in Cuba, for an internship. I had housing and food provided by my employer, they paid the family $800. I had $500 spending money on top of that. I lived like a KING. I've never been that rich in my life. People made my food, cleaning my room, cooked for me, did my laundry…

It depends on what you consider wealth. In the developed world, having servants is a sign of wealth because labor is expensive. In the developing world, labor is cheap- but plasma TV's certainly are not.

True, I'm probably projecting my view of what's worthwhile, and also highly valued here.

I value personal services far more than most tech items beyond a laptop and phone. And they also cost more here which makes me overvalue them mentally compared to their global value.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#55

Post by sneak »

yen223 wrote: post #28
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #3

I think the math is a bit wrong. Your money actually doesn't go much farther in Beijing, Bangkok, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur, etc... Some things might be cheaper (eating out) but many things will be more expensive (cars, iPads, decent clothes). You might be able to hire a driver for 2 or 3000 RMB a month in China, but you still have to buy the car for $4-50,000. At best, its basically a wash, and if you are American, yo…

Don't forget the worse part: salaries are much much lower in third-world nations - at least here in Malaysia - especially after considering currency conversion. To put this into perspective: median annual salary for software engineers in Malaysia is about RM45,000, which is $15,000 a year. A 'highly-paid' consultant might make about RM150,000 a year - all of $50,000 per annum.

So have US customers (who pay near-US rates) and outsource all your work to skilled local contractors. Added bonus: it scales way beyond your normal 168/hour week cap.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#56

Post by rayiner »

graeme wrote: post #45
rayiner wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba is a middle-income country. It has a GDP per capita 3x as high as India, and 5x as high as Bangladesh.

Cuba is a weird case, due to the socialist economy. Monthly salaries are about $15-$30. No, I'm not forgetting a zero. They get free education and health care (though quality of the latter varies) and they get a few cheap food as rations. There are a few other benefits, but in large part they're quite poor.

Top 10% of Bengalis have 35% of the income, in a country with a purchasing-power parity (PPP) income per capita of $1909. So my guess would be top decile makes about $6-7k/year. This is in a country with zero public services (while someone living on $10k/year in the U.S. has access to public education,* public housing, food stamps, Medicaid, etc). India is substantially better, but at around double the PPP income of Bangladesh, that puts top 10% of Indians probably right around the bottom 10% of Americans.

*) American school spend on average $10k/year per student.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#57

Post by doktrin »

HunterV wrote: post #15

As someone who grew up living all around the world I have this to say: Watch the move "Lost in Translation" If you can deal with forever being isolated, even with friends, then by all means live overseas. You will always be an outsider, no matter how acclimated you become. If you're ok with that, then you'll be fine. Otherwise, stick to America, it really is an awesome country to live in.

Ugh. Really?

I truly don't get the hype about that movie. They definitely got the visuals right, but a lot of it felt "off". Quite a few of the cultural stereotypes were awkwardly over-played too.

Also, Japan is really a different bird when it comes to integration. Not all countries have the same jarring and visceral division between foreigners and local society.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#58

Post by tptacek »

doktrin wrote: post #47
tptacek wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a nonsensical assertion. In exactly what way am I worse off simply because some rich tool has a private jet or a Bugatti Veyron? I still enjoy a standard of living beyond the wildest imaginings of my great grandparents, or, for that matter, for the vast rural poor of Asia. The problem of wealth disparity in the US is exclusively one of burden sharing: disparity is a problem when those of lesser means are requ…

>> In exactly what way am I worse off simply because some rich tool has a private jet or a Bugatti Veyron? Measures of "happiness" and "contentedness" are tightly bound to our environment. Being at the respective top or bottom of a given social order has a meaningful impact on quality of life perceptions. Obviously, some Maslow'esque hierarchy of needs applies here, and no-one in the world is happily starving. > But…

Veblen goods aren't the most effective means of investment for the greater good, but their exorbitant cost funds the salaries of the craftspeople and engineers and technicians who make them, and the designers and writers who market them.

I'm not saying that buying a Bugatti is a social good; it clearly isn't. I'm just saying that those purchases aren't a drag on the middle class, except to the extent that they represent a missed opportunity for a more-just burden sharing to offset a needless sacrifice by the working class that could realistically be addressed by the rich.

Again the point is: simply sitting around being rich isn't intrinsically harmful to the lower and middle classes.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#59

Post by gorrillamcd »

HunterV wrote: post #15

As someone who grew up living all around the world I have this to say: Watch the move "Lost in Translation" If you can deal with forever being isolated, even with friends, then by all means live overseas. You will always be an outsider, no matter how acclimated you become. If you're ok with that, then you'll be fine. Otherwise, stick to America, it really is an awesome country to live in.

That's not always true, or maybe I'm just weird. I admit, there's a lot of feeling out of the loop with friends in a different country, speaking a different language, but it's not forever. (And no, I'm not living in one of those American colonies that always seem to form either ;)

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#60

Post by 108 »

EscKey wrote: post #26
fractalsea wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me those images of New Delhi look 10x more exciting to live than http://abcdunlimited.com/ideas/images/suburbia.jpg for example.

Why does it feel Hacker News is completely blind to the rampant corruption, poverty and rape of New Delhi. I often read about how great it is here, unlike any other website. I suppose not being female helps. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2013/04/20134271442181816... Ignorance is bliss. Let me spell it out for you. THERE IS NOTHING FUN OR EXCITING ABOUT IT.

Its not just New Delhi. Hyperbole, but every woman in India is a potential rape target - All the women I spoke to complained of being touched, physically felt-up, had comments passed on their dress or female anatomy and yet they did nothing about it. What keeps them safe is still a mystery to me. The government sure aint doing much to change the sexist attitudes.

In the USA we take the freedom to wear bikinis and shorts for granted. Hard to see women in India dressing like Americans do.

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