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Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

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Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#21

Post by seanmcdirmid »

newbie12 wrote: post #16
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true. I'm a LHF (local hired foreigner) in China, and my pay is decent enough. The lack of a package isn't bad if you don't have kids. I also work for a big American corp (but not as an expat), so my prospects are pretty good when I decide to go back. Not exactly a career killer, even if not working at home headquarters always has a disadvantage associated with it.

Yeah but you obviously have a doctorate and commensurate experience to get hired. With respect to local hiring, I'm sure making less than what you'd earn in Seattle or San Jose is ok, but it isn't the high life that the OP was talking about.

The high life is a myth, but I'm not starving. The fact that I can take a taxi to work everyday and not own a car has some savings also.

It would be really hard to get hired out of college into a tech job overseas. But with 3-4 years experience in San Jose, you could transfer to Beijing fairly easily, though as a LHF, not an expat. To get an expat package, you need to be a big shot.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#22

Post by acabal »

More than a few of these arguments are basically, "The money's better there." Which might be true. But emigrating to a place is a big decision and money shouldn't be the factor you use to make it. Depending on where you go, building a new network of friends, learning the language, and acclimating to the culture can be difficult and weigh against your happiness far more than money can offset. And if you lose a year unhappily working in a foreign land just because the money's good, well, that's a year you can't get back.

Instead of career-oriented work abroad, I always suggest that younger people with few responsibilities save up money for a year or two and then take a year or two off to travel instead. You have to commit to a longish period--two weeks in Hawaii or Berlin doesn't count. But the experiences you have, and most importantly the people you meet (including other travelers) will change your perspective permanently, and you'll then be better armed to make a decision on where to build your career.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#23

Post by newbie12 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #19
stormen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're incredibly ignorant. You should leave the US; not because the rest of the world is necessarily better (yet some parts undoubtedly - in general - are), but because it gives you a broader perspective on your own life and situation. Just a statement like "where the bottom 10% live as well as the top 10% do in developing countries" really shows you haven't been outside your home town.

>>Just a statement like "where the bottom 10% live as well as the top 10% do in developing countries" really shows you haven't been outside your home town. The real problem with that statement is that it misrepresents the problem. The fact that our poor live as well as middle class (or even upper class) in developing countries does not mean anything, because our poor do not compete for the same resources and opportun…

Why? Our "poor" have televisions, air conditioning, cars, and homes. There's so much food in America that obesity is a major health issue. This is a profound success and departure from the normal human condition of misery. Please put down the Marxist textbook.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#24

Post by acabal »

rayiner wrote: post #7

I view with a deep distrust the new class of global capitalist that thinks we must inexorably become "global citizens." The western world didn't come from nowhere. People built it, and their successors should be able to reap the fruits of it, not have to flee to the developing world. I read an article the other day (it was in Forbes or maybe Business Week). Some American was talking about the investment opportunities…

> I'll be chilling here in America, where the bottom 10% live as well as the top 10% do in developing countries.

Very true. But it's a perspective many people born and raised in the US lack. (Witness the HN thread a few days ago about the guy who retired at the age of 30, with people slamming him for living at a "poverty-level" income. Which of course means he lives better than 70% of the world's population.)

Long term travel (but not necessarily career-oriented work in foreign lands as this article suggests) is important to gaining that very important perspective.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#25

Post by fatjokes »

rayiner wrote: post #7

I view with a deep distrust the new class of global capitalist that thinks we must inexorably become "global citizens." The western world didn't come from nowhere. People built it, and their successors should be able to reap the fruits of it, not have to flee to the developing world. I read an article the other day (it was in Forbes or maybe Business Week). Some American was talking about the investment opportunities…

> The western world didn't come from nowhere. People built it, and their successors should be able to reap the fruits of it, not have to flee to the developing world.

If the successors should reap the benefits, then should they also pay for the sins? E.g., continued restitution for slavery (which, while abolished has left deep racial scars in society) and for the genocide and forced displacement of the indigenous population (nobody exactly gave the land back).

Seems unfair to only reap the benefits, and then say the past crimes were committed by other people...

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#26

Post by EscKey »

fractalsea wrote: post #18
rayiner wrote: post #7

I view with a deep distrust the new class of global capitalist that thinks we must inexorably become "global citizens." The western world didn't come from nowhere. People built it, and their successors should be able to reap the fruits of it, not have to flee to the developing world. I read an article the other day (it was in Forbes or maybe Business Week). Some American was talking about the investment opportunities…

To me those images of New Delhi look 10x more exciting to live than http://abcdunlimited.com/ideas/images/suburbia.jpg for example.

Why does it feel Hacker News is completely blind to the rampant corruption, poverty and rape of New Delhi. I often read about how great it is here, unlike any other website. I suppose not being female helps.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2013/04/20134271442181816...

Ignorance is bliss. Let me spell it out for you. THERE IS NOTHING FUN OR EXCITING ABOUT IT.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#27

Post by pwim »

resu wrote: post #2

Other than teaching English abroad, how else can recent grads find work abroad? The article really drops the ball on that one and the meager links provided are useless. I spent nearly two years abroad in undergrad interning abroad, but even then, finding a relevant (not teaching English) full time job in Asia or Europe when you're in North America is extremely hard.

I got a job as a developer in Japan right after I graduated from University. I wrote about my experience here: http://www.tokyodev.com/2011/08/19/finding-a-job-as-a-ruby-d...

Having an in demand skillset (like being a developer) opens up a lot of possibilities.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#28

Post by yen223 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #3

I think the math is a bit wrong. Your money actually doesn't go much farther in Beijing, Bangkok, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur, etc... Some things might be cheaper (eating out) but many things will be more expensive (cars, iPads, decent clothes). You might be able to hire a driver for 2 or 3000 RMB a month in China, but you still have to buy the car for $4-50,000. At best, its basically a wash, and if you are American, yo…

Don't forget the worse part: salaries are much much lower in third-world nations - at least here in Malaysia - especially after considering currency conversion.

To put this into perspective: median annual salary for software engineers in Malaysia is about RM45,000, which is $15,000 a year. A 'highly-paid' consultant might make about RM150,000 a year - all of $50,000 per annum.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#29

Post by 108 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #3

I think the math is a bit wrong. Your money actually doesn't go much farther in Beijing, Bangkok, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur, etc... Some things might be cheaper (eating out) but many things will be more expensive (cars, iPads, decent clothes). You might be able to hire a driver for 2 or 3000 RMB a month in China, but you still have to buy the car for $4-50,000. At best, its basically a wash, and if you are American, yo…

That's right. Food and gas is cheaper back home (USA) than it is in India, where the cost of living is astronomical vis-a-vis the paycheck drawn by the average Indian. A per-item price comparison shows vegetables and meat are a lot cheaper (and cleaner) in the US than what I find in India. Metro cities like Mumbai and Bangalore are very expensive when it comes to rental costs, transportation costs and entertainment costs. Have you checked out how much beer/alcohol costs in pubs in Mumbai and Bangalore. Let me tell you, its way more than what we pay in the USA.

Schooling is the most expensive - there is no free public schooling worth sending your kid to. A good school can cost INR. 100,000 per year and even the poorest person I met aspires and scrapes money to be able to afford the astronomical fees required to send their kid to a "private English-medium" school.

Re: Why Young Americans Should Work Overseas

#30

Post by tptacek »

fractalsea wrote: post #18
rayiner wrote: post #7

I view with a deep distrust the new class of global capitalist that thinks we must inexorably become "global citizens." The western world didn't come from nowhere. People built it, and their successors should be able to reap the fruits of it, not have to flee to the developing world. I read an article the other day (it was in Forbes or maybe Business Week). Some American was talking about the investment opportunities…

To me those images of New Delhi look 10x more exciting to live than http://abcdunlimited.com/ideas/images/suburbia.jpg for example.

Wild guess: that's because you take clean running water for granted.
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