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Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

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Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#41

Post by redrobot5050 »

tokenadult wrote: post #25
jonas_b wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this interesting because I myself have had a great improvement in my relationship with my dad and some of my friends just by being able to communicate more directly. My dad actually told me a few days ago something he had learned from a friend, that anything that you say to another person with absolute sincerity and respect is, in fact, a gift to the other person. And I'm starting to believe him. I would be ve…

absolute sincerity and respect The tough situation in life is only being able to be sincere when expressing disrespect, because the other guy deserves disrespect. What do you think about this? (I'll treat your honest answer as a respectful answer, whatever you say.)

It really depends on the temperament of the friend.

One of my good friends, who's declared I will be his best man at his wedding, used to be the guy at the party scoping out the drunkest chick for the "easy lay".

I flat out told him I'm not inviting him to my parties because I know all the girls that come to my parties personally, and I'm "sick and tired of watching you take advantage of the drunkest chick at my party."

He's told me that hearing this, he almost completely wrote me off as an asshole and never spoke to me again. It was only over time, and by seeing how shaping up (being nicer to people, not being completely selfish or short sighted) he realized I was right. And I was urging him to be "better" because I knew he was "better".

TD;DR: Radical Honesty can work, has a low success rate, and will always, always, always generate resentment. People instinctually kill the messenger.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#42

Post by redrobot5050 »

thismat wrote: post #35
PieSquared wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying through silence is still lying.

I don't agree, controlling your tongue is one of the hardest things to master. The age old saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything" rings true in this case for sure. There are personal feelings and comments which are better left private, not everything I think or feel is anyone's business but my own and a lot can be said for having a little tact.

My family crest bears this motto in latin: "He conquers, he who conquers himself."

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#43

Post by redrobot5050 »

Jem wrote: post #34
rcs wrote: post #3

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will appreciate your honesty. Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business. Our relationship went from great to icy. Over t…

I made a similar mistake in a job interview once. I was interviewing for a position as IT technician, and the network manager asked me where I wanted to be in 5 years time. I responded "in your job". It didn't go down well, and although I explained that I meant "in a position of responsibility such as that of network manager" rather than replacing him in his actual job, we never did get on. Although I got the job, I…

I agree with this one. I mentioned to a program lead that I felt I was ready for responsibility such as being a program lead, and despite writing the prototype of the system we were designing, having intimate knowledge of the requirements, performance awards and recognition for my dedication to that client, i got stuck on doing the metrics module all by myself. And it was slated to be replaced (as soon as I was done with it) with an off-the-shelf reporting tool.

Bottom line: If you feel you're ready for the next level, find a place that wants you there and will take you in. Don't ever let your boss know you're not 100% in love with the shit sandwiches you're being fed.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#44

Post by redrobot5050 »

david72486 wrote: post #32
dkarl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radical honesty isn't a presently effective means of communication. It's an attempt to reform the channel and move towards a new protocol. Radical honesty guarantees being misunderstood in the short run, because if you say something more honest than expected, you're communicating -- according to the prevailing protocol -- "I'm desperate" or "Fuck you" or both or something worse. You have to accept the cost of the mis…

I think that part of the success of "Radical Honesty" is not directly about honesty, but about taking risks. So many people live a bland life because they cannot fathom "making waves". This is normal. However, "Radical Honesty" forces us to break these laws. I think life is meant for excitement, and this is one way of achieving it. (As Tim Ferriss and others have pointed out) Happiness and Sadness are two sides of th…

Yeah. When you've realized the phrase "shit settles on the bottom of the pool" sticks in your mind, alongside the phrase "my co-workers are settling" then you're on the path to misery.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#45

Post by redrobot5050 »

stavrianos wrote: post #38
paulgb wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. That's partly what I'm trying to figure out. My internal argument goes something like this: on one hand, if the behaviour is the same how can you claim the intent is different? But on the other hand, how do you define deceptive behaviour without intent? Here's a thought experiment: suppose someone had no short-term memory but had a dog who was trained to ask (as dogs do) for his meal each day. If the dog…

Consider also the example of a cuckoo's chick. These things obviously have no "training". Genetics is the only thing they have to work with. And they "convince" doting mother birds to feed them extremely well (apparently, so well that other birds, just flying past the nest will sometimes give them food they were carrying back the their young). Is this a "lie" ?

Its sounds more like a clever hack. "Multi-mother food source". It'll be fixed in the next patch. Just keep logging on to steam.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#46

Post by redrobot5050 »

rsheridan6 wrote: post #33

My hunch is that this is a charismatic (evidence: he's fucked 500 women) guy telling everybody "be more like me." That reminds me of somebody I used to work for who would say things to people that would have gotten me fired or beaten up in the parking lot, but he got away with it because he was charming. So what happens when somebody with average or sub-average charisma tries it?

You get fired. And beaten up in the parking lot.

The real trick is to be more charismatic. Charisma can be learned. Your image can be polished. Its a question of time, drive, and priorities. Every "I've fucked 500 women, be more like me" guy on the planet states that their skills are teachable.

So learn the skills. The smarmy, stuck-up, get-away-with-the-most-inconsiderate-things part is just something that you learn you can get away with AFTER you've learned to be charismatic.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#47

Post by padmanabhan01 »

rcs wrote: post #3

I can say, w\o hyperbole, that radical honesty ruined my life. Do not, I repeat do not believe that people are generally good, want to help you, will appreciate your honesty. Now, I didn't do anything stupid like telling my boss that I'd like to sleep with his daughter, but, when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business. Our relationship went from great to icy. Over t…

//'when he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years I did say that I wanted to start my own business.'

The article does warn: '"I advocate never lying in personal relationships. But if you have Anne Frank in your attic and a Nazi knocks on the door, lie....I lie to any government official."

Some bosses or people should be treated like govt officials.

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#48

Post by PieSquared »

thismat wrote: post #35
PieSquared wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying through silence is still lying.

I don't agree, controlling your tongue is one of the hardest things to master. The age old saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything" rings true in this case for sure. There are personal feelings and comments which are better left private, not everything I think or feel is anyone's business but my own and a lot can be said for having a little tact.

Agreed, but you're not disagreeing with me. It's a lying, but it's usually white lies, the ones necessary for society to function as it does.

(I wasn't saying that you shouldn't lie through inaction; I was just saying that inaction can be a form of lying.)

Re: Radical Honesty: I Think You're Fat (2007)

#49

Post by thismat »

PieSquared wrote: post #48
thismat wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree, controlling your tongue is one of the hardest things to master. The age old saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything" rings true in this case for sure. There are personal feelings and comments which are better left private, not everything I think or feel is anyone's business but my own and a lot can be said for having a little tact.

Agreed, but you're not disagreeing with me. It's a lying, but it's usually white lies, the ones necessary for society to function as it does. (I wasn't saying that you shouldn't lie through inaction; I was just saying that inaction can be a form of lying.)

I think your definition of lying is a little more broad than mine. I would consider lying a deliberate effort to mislead someone from the truth or your actual opinion.

For example, if said person had a very beautiful daughter, and asked me for my opinion on it, I would have no problem telling him that she was indeed, beautiful.

Why would he need more information? If he's pressing for more details on a persons lust for his daughter, he has more problems than me answering him honestly (though with tact).

Likewise, if he mentioned how beautiful his daughter was and I went into vulgar or even vague detail about what I thought of her and her attributes, then I stepped out of line.

If the topic is never brought up, and I don't say anything, I am not in fact lying, there is nothing to be misleading to him.

On another note, if he asked where I saw myself in 5 years, I would answer honestly and suffer the consequences, if I did hope to start my business, I would mention that as an ultimate goal. Generally that will hurt your career opportunities with the current employer, but honestly, contract work might be the better option for you anyway if you're only after starting your own business.

I have through freelance work built up quite a relationship with a client who I wouldn't mind working full time for. And I would/do consider going contract full time occasionally, but I really have no plans to (I'm just not closed off to future opportunities, and I grew up in entrepreneurial house, so it's always going to be a desire to do my own thing). Should I tell my employer that if a great opportunity arises I would take it? Not at all, they know they have the power to negotiate situations like that, and they arn't unfamiliar with them either.

I do see your point though, if you're misleading someone who asked a direct question through inaction, it could be considered lying, though I try my hardest to avoid this.

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