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If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

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Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#51

Post by cema »

michaelochurch wrote: post #37
cema wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just phraseology. The whole attitude expressed in that phrase stinks.

The whole attitude expressed in that phrase stinks. I won't get into details, but I have had way more negative experiences than most people (many having nothing to do with work issues, the main trigger being more than 10 years ago) get and I have a serious, long-standing anger problem. At this point it is a medical fact. I'm not ashamed of it. It's not me, and I do everything I can to manage it. It's the residue of t…

  I have a serious, long-standing anger problem
It may interfere with your ability to express yourself clearly, but don't you think it may also cloud your judgement?

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#52

Post by [deleted] »

michaelochurch wrote: post #37
cema wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just phraseology. The whole attitude expressed in that phrase stinks.

The whole attitude expressed in that phrase stinks. I won't get into details, but I have had way more negative experiences than most people (many having nothing to do with work issues, the main trigger being more than 10 years ago) get and I have a serious, long-standing anger problem. At this point it is a medical fact. I'm not ashamed of it. It's not me, and I do everything I can to manage it. It's the residue of t…

[deleted]

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#53

Post by michaelochurch »

cema wrote: post #51
michaelochurch wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole attitude expressed in that phrase stinks. I won't get into details, but I have had way more negative experiences than most people (many having nothing to do with work issues, the main trigger being more than 10 years ago) get and I have a serious, long-standing anger problem. At this point it is a medical fact. I'm not ashamed of it. It's not me, and I do everything I can to manage it. It's the residue of t…

I have a serious, long-standing anger problem It may interfere with your ability to express yourself clearly, but don't you think it may also cloud your judgement?

In the short term, it has that effect, which explains some bad decisions I've made. Anger has a weird property of clouding short- and long-term judgment but clarifying a certain medium-term precision.

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#54

Post by tbatterii »

wtvanhest wrote: post #50
tbatterii wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

investors want a return on their investment. i believe the technical term would be ROI otherwise known as rate of return not the rate increase of the rate of return or ROI. an investor who demands constant growth in their rate of return on an investment is either irrationally optimistic or stupid.

There are a variety of terms describing how to measure the success of an investment. Return On Investment (ROI) is one of those. The most important measure is arguably NPV (Net Present Value) because it takes in to consideration the size of the amount of money you get back after adjusting for the required rate of return. As an extreme example, imagine if I gave you the option to get a 1000% on a $1 investment. But, t…

> Small businesses can be successful for the individual entrepreneur, but they are not investable.

^ ---- by VC's

well that's a good way of explaining the VC's perspective on what to invest in. whether that is a wise and sustainable strategy or good use of resources or not is a different matter. But in present company you will win that argument. Doesn't make it true though.

On CPA's I wasn't implying that all you needed was an undergrad to get it you have to take the state exam at least. I was attempting to prove an mba is not required to make some sense of financial statements because it seemed that is what MisterBastahrd was implying.

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#55

Post by cema »

michaelochurch wrote: post #53
cema wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a serious, long-standing anger problem It may interfere with your ability to express yourself clearly, but don't you think it may also cloud your judgement?

In the short term, it has that effect, which explains some bad decisions I've made. Anger has a weird property of clouding short- and long-term judgment but clarifying a certain medium-term precision.

If I understood you correctly, I abandoned any attempts to medically (or psychologically) cure yourself of this problem? Do you think it is not curable?

I am not sure how many people here have the same problem, anger appears to be less prevalent than depression, but in case there are more people suffering from the condition, or people who do not realize they have it, perhaps you could do a writeup of your experience with it? It could be helpful.

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#56

Post by wtvanhest »

tbatterii wrote: post #54
wtvanhest wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a variety of terms describing how to measure the success of an investment. Return On Investment (ROI) is one of those. The most important measure is arguably NPV (Net Present Value) because it takes in to consideration the size of the amount of money you get back after adjusting for the required rate of return. As an extreme example, imagine if I gave you the option to get a 1000% on a $1 investment. But, t…

> Small businesses can be successful for the individual entrepreneur, but they are not investable. ^ ---- by VC's well that's a good way of explaining the VC's perspective on what to invest in. whether that is a wise and sustainable strategy or good use of resources or not is a different matter. But in present company you will win that argument. Doesn't make it true though. On CPA's I wasn't implying that all you nee…

Yeah, MisterBastahrd is wrong about an MBA helping that much with accounting anyway.

An MBA is really an introduction to a lot of different business topics rather than helping an individual master them (bad name IDK?). In business/life etc. it is as important to know what you don't know, i.e. that you are shitty at accounting, or that investing is a very deep knowledge business etc. than almost anything else.

An MBA really helps you learn what you don't know so you can study it later. Accounting is complex and to be really good at it, it takes years to master. Reading a balance sheet is straight forward until you realize that you don't know exactly how everything on there got there and you don't know how the statements link together, nor do you know what a healthy balance sheet looks like over a non-healthy balance sheet etc.

Technologists on HN wildly misunderstand the world of finance and business just like we misunderstand the world of programming.

I comment on business topics and read without commenting on technical topics. I can't imagine hiring someone without an MBA for a business position unless it was really basic or unless they had deep experience in the same field. An MBA can seriously jump start business knowledge. Getting one in your mid to late 20s is a huge help at that point in your life if you are interested in business.

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#57

Post by makomk »

Major_Grooves wrote: post #7
AdrianRossouw wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really felt like you were scraping the bottom of the barrel to list companies founded by MBA's. It only illustrates the point that MBA's don't do startups. The only one founded in this decade is zynga, which is widely considered to be poorly managed. I'll give you sun though, and even electronic arts.. founded by trip hawkins. Although EA only hit it's hay days well after trip left the company, and he was responsi…

Given I've listed a bunch of companies started by MBAs, the statement 'It only illustrates the point that MBA's don't do startups.' is clearly incorrect and a lazy thing to say. I just listed high profile ones. Does Kiva not count as recent? I know loads of fledgling companies started by other MBAs. Here's one for starters: http://www.tradechase.com

Kiva is probably not the best example, since they make even the worst tech startup look like a paragon of virtue. (Seriously. Their business model is based around convincing wealthy Westerners to lend them money interest-free, puportedly as a loan to a specific individual in a third world country, then actually handing that money over to a partner who uses it to make loans at substantial interest rates to whoever they consider profitable. Some of the loan companies have really unpleasant collection tactics too.)

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#58

Post by jamesaguilar »

michaelochurch wrote: post #34
JonnieCache wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly agree with you, at least with a lot of it. Can you think of any constructive ways forward, short of developing a striking new range of organic lamppost ornaments? Maybe engineer-led companies could establish some kind of guild where they publicly pledge never to implement certain kinds of corrosive management practices. Good hackers could then just refuse to work for firms who aren't signed up, and firms c…

Can you think of any constructive ways forward, short of developing a striking new range of organic lamppost ornaments? Sure, but this is several questions. In the very-long term, society will need to implement a basic income due to widespread structural unemployment. There will always be differences in social status and popularity contests, but once we get to a state where low social status means you're on a 3-month…

> if you ruin someone's career with a bad reference . . . it should be legal for that person to use violence, up to killing

It should be legal to kill someone for giving you a bad reference? OK.

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#59

Post by DerekSmalls »

michaelochurch wrote: post #34
JonnieCache wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly agree with you, at least with a lot of it. Can you think of any constructive ways forward, short of developing a striking new range of organic lamppost ornaments? Maybe engineer-led companies could establish some kind of guild where they publicly pledge never to implement certain kinds of corrosive management practices. Good hackers could then just refuse to work for firms who aren't signed up, and firms c…

Can you think of any constructive ways forward, short of developing a striking new range of organic lamppost ornaments? Sure, but this is several questions. In the very-long term, society will need to implement a basic income due to widespread structural unemployment. There will always be differences in social status and popularity contests, but once we get to a state where low social status means you're on a 3-month…

Dude... you've entered Ugly Time Cube land. You need professional help.

Re: If MBAs are useless, we’re all in big trouble

#60

Post by eli_gottlieb »

michaelochurch wrote: post #42
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should come over here. I think you would like Israelis.

Interesting. Why do you say this? I've heard that Israel is an amazing place, and most of the Israelis I've known well I've really liked.

The following:

This goes back to what your Dad probably told you about fistfights as a kid. "Never start a fight, but end one." On your terms.

...

I am sick of watching our territory get taken by smiling assholes who have nothing to offer the world, and whom any properly masculine society would have done something about decades ago. I'm fucking disgusted and ready to fight. If that means I occasionally swear a blue streak, who fucking cares? The only thing that matters is defeating these assholes with such force that they never fuck with us again.

These are kind of statements-in-miniature of the Israeli national soul. Our unofficial motto is Al tihiyeh frayyer!, "Don't be a sucker!" (related is the word "chutzpah", colloquially translated as "balls" but really "rudeness"), and it's built into the entire culture on such a deep level that we often prefer to be rude or to fight rather than give up on what we believe or what we think we deserve.

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