What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison • Hacker News Board

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#71

Post by carlyle4545 » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 4:59 PM UTC

handelaar wrote: post #67

carlyle4545 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first startup actually landed me in CA state prison. (Read about my prison sentence and my new project here: http://comebackasap.com/burn_the_boats/ ) Though I "only" served a year, the one thing I missed more than anything --including family, friends, and the touch of a woman-- was internet access. (I love my family, friends, and lady friends but a year away from them wasn't so bad. Fortunately I have no kids.) I…

> Read about my prison sentence and my new project here Tip: In the UK, operating a fund which hedges against criminal proceedings (colloquially, a 'bust fund') is a severe criminal offence in its own right. Do reassure me that you've made very sure nobody where you are is likely to prosecute you a second time :)

Unfortunately there aren't any reassurances I can give you. Several code sections in CA prohibit insurance against "willful acts, wrongful acts and criminal acts." However, Comeback's goal with custodial insurance isn't to make the consequences of being convicted of crimes less severe, it's to reduce the likelihood of recidivism upon release.

In a state where the recidivism rate is a staggering 65%, at a cost of tens of millions of dollars to taxpayers, we need something radical to turn things around. Over 40% of the prison population is incarcerated for violating the terms of their probation or parole. Custodial insurance is just crazy and disruptive enough of a concept to make a difference in reducing these obscene numbers.

We're working diligently to garner support amongst community activists, religious leaders, and most importantly politicians in hopes of easing any potential restrictions in offering custodial insurance.

Sadly there's a very real possibility that despite our noble intentions, Comeback may ultimately lead to a failed business and some very heavy fines...possibly even jail time.

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#72

Post by DigitalJack » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 5:00 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #35

DigitalJack wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all speculation, but my guess is he wouldn't have achieved much and would probably be dead.

What difference would 5, 10, 15, 20 or 25 years make? In other words do you think that he will achieve something today that he would not have been able to achieve 5 years ago?

I was thinking more along the lines of, "if he hadn't gone to prison, what would he have achieved."

I haven't read much about him, but if he was a dealer and trafficker in cocaine, I think there is a high probability that he would either be dead or not have accomplished much.

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#73

Post by MichaelApproved » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 5:17 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #60

MichaelApproved wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd also want to limit it to the most vetted and monitored articles to prevent someone from the outside from leaving coded messages in articles. I figure the more popular articles could spot strange updates and eliminate them. There's also nothing urgent about the access they get. Articles could be restricted to 1 or 2 years old to further prevent the transfer of timely information.

Honestly, is this really that big of a concern? This sounds like something that may be necessary for the OBLs or s of the world. But in general, this level of paranoia about being able to communicate with the outside world is just insane. It only serves as an easy excuse to exert an obscene level of control over these people's lives.

From what I've seen (in documentaries and the show lockup raw) violent offenders will try to harm the families of prison personnel and others by sending and receiving orders. It's a real problem. It's not as easy as restricting access from just these people because they can force other inmates with Internet access to do their bidding.

Its possible that lower security prisoners can be treated differently.

edit: typo

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#74

Post by saraid216 » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 5:23 PM UTC

carlyle4545 wrote: post #71

handelaar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Read about my prison sentence and my new project here Tip: In the UK, operating a fund which hedges against criminal proceedings (colloquially, a 'bust fund') is a severe criminal offence in its own right. Do reassure me that you've made very sure nobody where you are is likely to prosecute you a second time :)

Unfortunately there aren't any reassurances I can give you. Several code sections in CA prohibit insurance against "willful acts, wrongful acts and criminal acts." However, Comeback's goal with custodial insurance isn't to make the consequences of being convicted of crimes less severe, it's to reduce the likelihood of recidivism upon release. In a state where the recidivism rate is a staggering 65%, at a cost of tens…

Please tell me you at least have some paid-for legal advice.

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#75

Post by saraid216 » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 5:25 PM UTC

GilbertErik wrote: post #39

jacquesm wrote: post #6

Presumably the reason why inmates don't have unfettered access to the internet is to make sure they're not running some empire from behind bars but at the same time in this day and age this sounds like exceptionally cruel punishment. If there is one thing that would help an ex-convict to re-integrate into society it would be to be able to read about what is going on in the outside world and to be able to self-educate…

I know that HN likes to solve problems, but I don't think spending time debating the best mechanism to provide internet access to a population that many of us don't understand is worthwhile. How about someone spend some time learning about best ways to rehabilitate criminals and whether internet access should be a part of that? (I'm poking fun that most of us have science, engineering, design backgrounds instead of C…

> armchair quarterback a two sentence solution

This is the most succinct description of 60% of HN comments I've seen, I think.

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#76

Post by carlyle4545 » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 5:34 PM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #74

carlyle4545 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately there aren't any reassurances I can give you. Several code sections in CA prohibit insurance against "willful acts, wrongful acts and criminal acts." However, Comeback's goal with custodial insurance isn't to make the consequences of being convicted of crimes less severe, it's to reduce the likelihood of recidivism upon release. In a state where the recidivism rate is a staggering 65%, at a cost of tens…

Please tell me you at least have some paid-for legal advice.

Thankfully we have 2 attorneys sitting on our advisory board.

Edit: That's not to say we have it all figured out by any means. I'd love to read some feedback from the HN community. Not so much legal advice, but in terms of the overall concept of custodial insurance, (an insurance policy that covers a person's expenses for up to a year in the event they get taken into custody.)

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#77

Post by mahyarm » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 5:38 PM UTC

carlyle4545 wrote: post #53

jacquesm wrote: post #6

Presumably the reason why inmates don't have unfettered access to the internet is to make sure they're not running some empire from behind bars but at the same time in this day and age this sounds like exceptionally cruel punishment. If there is one thing that would help an ex-convict to re-integrate into society it would be to be able to read about what is going on in the outside world and to be able to self-educate…

My first startup actually landed me in CA state prison. (Read about my prison sentence and my new project here: http://comebackasap.com/burn_the_boats/ ) Though I "only" served a year, the one thing I missed more than anything --including family, friends, and the touch of a woman-- was internet access. (I love my family, friends, and lady friends but a year away from them wasn't so bad. Fortunately I have no kids.) I…

So from what I understand from your story, if you hired the proper lawyers and put in the proper legal structure to properly protect yourself in the first place, you wouldn't of been sent to prison?

Jesus

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#78

Post by carlyle4545 » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 5:56 PM UTC

mahyarm wrote: post #77

carlyle4545 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first startup actually landed me in CA state prison. (Read about my prison sentence and my new project here: http://comebackasap.com/burn_the_boats/ ) Though I "only" served a year, the one thing I missed more than anything --including family, friends, and the touch of a woman-- was internet access. (I love my family, friends, and lady friends but a year away from them wasn't so bad. Fortunately I have no kids.) I…

So from what I understand from your story, if you hired the proper lawyers and put in the proper legal structure to properly protect yourself in the first place, you wouldn't of been sent to prison? Jesus

You're partially correct.

Yes, our corporate attorney was useless. We had been under investigation for a year prior to formal charges being filed. He made a variety of changes to our contracts in an effort to make the company compliant with CA law, (mostly indemnifying us against any loss that may come as a result of a person placing their vehicles in our program.) He failed. I was sentenced to state prison.

Our "proper legal structure" mattered little in lieu of the circumstances that led to the company's (and my freedom's) demise.

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#79

Post by lambersley » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 6:04 PM UTC

carlyle4545 wrote: post #53

jacquesm wrote: post #6

Presumably the reason why inmates don't have unfettered access to the internet is to make sure they're not running some empire from behind bars but at the same time in this day and age this sounds like exceptionally cruel punishment. If there is one thing that would help an ex-convict to re-integrate into society it would be to be able to read about what is going on in the outside world and to be able to self-educate…

My first startup actually landed me in CA state prison. (Read about my prison sentence and my new project here: http://comebackasap.com/burn_the_boats/ ) Though I "only" served a year, the one thing I missed more than anything --including family, friends, and the touch of a woman-- was internet access. (I love my family, friends, and lady friends but a year away from them wasn't so bad. Fortunately I have no kids.) I…

Interesting idea. What would the premiums be based on? Were you able to find insurers willing to back this business model?

Re: What It’s Like to Get Online After 25 Years in Prison

#80

Post by downandout » Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 6:07 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #6

Presumably the reason why inmates don't have unfettered access to the internet is to make sure they're not running some empire from behind bars but at the same time in this day and age this sounds like exceptionally cruel punishment. If there is one thing that would help an ex-convict to re-integrate into society it would be to be able to read about what is going on in the outside world and to be able to self-educate…

Presumably the reason why inmates don't have unfettered access to the internet is to make sure they're not running some empire from behind bars

This is the argument that jailers use, but it really doesn't hold water. The vast majority of prisoners pose no threat to the public, online or in person. Preventing Internet access is nothing more than a way to increase recidivism, which keeps prison guard union dues flowing. This is why various correctional officer unions are constantly lobbying for ever more harsh criminal laws and mandatory sentencing schemes - often for victimless crimes. This strategy has worked; the US incarceration rate is the highest in the world - even higher than countries we think of as crazy that tie criminal laws to religious beliefs. Countless lives have been needlessly destroyed, and countless children have grown up without fathers, so that prison and jail guards can have make their $20/hr.

Some form of Internet should be allowed in correctional facilities. Since entire college courses are readily available for free online, you would think it would be a top priority to grant access to them. However, reform simply isn't the goal of the people that have the power to make these decisions. By enabling prisoners to better themselves, they would literally be working themselves out of a job.