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Expunging Google

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Re: Expunging Google

#31

Post by duncan_bayne »

ok_craig wrote: post #8

I still think this is all ridiculous. Stopping support for a product that uses a certain standard doesn't mean you're against that standard, unless you're a conspiracy theorist. You can argue that they're against certain open standards if you want, but the canceling of Reader isn't actually evidence of that. Simultaneously putting effort into G+ is also not evidence of that. It's not even symbolic of that. It is only…

I don't think that Google is acting in opposition to open standards _in general_, because for the most part they benefit by them.

What's clear is that:

- Google is seeking to increase the monetary value of its users

- the way to do that is with social media (see Facebook, who are winning this battle hands down)

- they will push open standards under the bus where necessary, in order to drive users to Google+

As the former PM for Reader puts it (https://www.quora.com/Google-Reader-Shut-Down-March-2013/Why...):

"Let's be clear that this has nothing to do with revenue vs operating costs. Reader never made money directly (though you could maybe attribute some of Feedburner and AdSense for Feeds usage to it), and it wasn't the goal of the product.

Reader has been fighting for approval/survival at Google since long before I was a PM for the product. I'm pretty sure Reader was threatened with de-staffing at least three times before it actually happened. It was often for some reason related to social:

    2008 - let's pull the team off to build OpenSocial
    2009 - let's pull the team off to build Buzz
    2010 - let's pull the team off to build Google+"

Re: Expunging Google

#32

Post by duncan_bayne »

cromwellian wrote: post #6

"It's because I think that Google is now working against the potential of the open web" That's a pretty bold claim and an epic overreaction, especially given that Google currently derives 97% of its revenue from the Web, and if it goes away, it would be very problematic for Google.

The Web is a small subset of the Internet. There are many other protocols to enable the sharing of data between individuals and platforms, and it looks like Google wishes to deprecate at least some of those in favour of its own end-to-end solution. I think that killing off Reader in favour of G+ is the start of acceleration in that direction. I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Expunging Google

#33

Post by duncan_bayne »

yanw wrote: post #17

I try to avoid these sorts of submissions, mainly because of their non-content and the subsequent familiar discussion, but somehow they keep reaching the front page. It’s certainly your prerogative to use whatever you like but the incorrect assertions bother me, especially the prevalent one: “It's because I think that Google is now working against the potential of the open web”. Here’s a rebuttal in the form of a par…

Thanks - I've corrected that error.

See my other comments on this item for rebuttal of your other points :)

Re: Expunging Google

#34

Post by cromwellian »

parennoob wrote: post #10

I don't think Google is 'actively working against an open web', but the shuttering of Reader in order to make way for that ghastly Google+ makes me reconsider every time they open up a new service (didn't even glance at Keep, for example. Remember what happened to Google Notebook?) It's nice to have open source alternatives, and possibly to help them grow. If a lot more people start using, say, ownCloud, it will prob…

"the shuttering of Reader in order to make way for that ghastly Google+"

There's a lot of erroneous assumptions in there. Reader was never really a product with much support, it was more a labor of love of a small dedicated team. Reader was not shutdown to "make way for G+" anymore than any of the other spring cleaned services were shut down because of competing services. Even the original (ex-Googler now) Reader engineers have pretty much outlined many of the reasons, including the decline of RSS, which was killed off in large part by people moving to services like Twitter, Facebook, and Tumblr.

It's really regretable, but it's time to realize that the rest of the world moved on, and if we want federated, open services, it's going to have to built from the ground up, and in a way that users, not hackers, will want to use it.

Re: Expunging Google

#35

Post by ebbv »

This is not conscious consumerism. This is a childish temper tantrum.

Chrome has better developer tools. If your job is being a web dev and you purposely make your job harder because you're mad at Google for shutting down Reader, you're not being rational.

Re: Expunging Google

#36

Post by duncan_bayne »

felipelalli wrote: post #30

exagerado.

Nah, farsighted :) Seriously, you just wait.

If you're a user on a commercial system you didn't pay for (Google, Facebook, etc.) then you're not a customer, you're cattle. Your value is directly proportional to how much the company running the system knows about you.

I don't like where Facebook is going, and I think Google is following in their footsteps, albeit helped along by an excellent reputation for quality and fair play, especially amongst geeks.

Maybe I'm just being a curmudgeon, but I think Google is playing the same 'embrace and extend' card as Microsoft did back in the day, just for slightly different reasons.

Re: Expunging Google

#37

Post by kyrias »

yanw wrote: post #17

I try to avoid these sorts of submissions, mainly because of their non-content and the subsequent familiar discussion, but somehow they keep reaching the front page. It’s certainly your prerogative to use whatever you like but the incorrect assertions bother me, especially the prevalent one: “It's because I think that Google is now working against the potential of the open web”. Here’s a rebuttal in the form of a par…

Huh, Firefox hasn't dropped RSS support? The button is just not in the Awesomebar anymore.

Re: Expunging Google

#38

Post by RestlessMind »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #11
ok_craig wrote: post #8

I still think this is all ridiculous. Stopping support for a product that uses a certain standard doesn't mean you're against that standard, unless you're a conspiracy theorist. You can argue that they're against certain open standards if you want, but the canceling of Reader isn't actually evidence of that. Simultaneously putting effort into G+ is also not evidence of that. It's not even symbolic of that. It is only…

The main problem with Google at the moment is the centralization of many popular services into one corporate entity. Video, search, email etc. are all now in the hands of, mostly, Google. With so few viable competitors, you get a de-factory monopoly as well as insane growth. The centralization itself is the problem. Success like this does not breed innovation. Aside from some novel extra-Internet projects like Glass…

> Aside from ..., Google does not innovate much, and many of these services have stagnated

Can you please give a few examples of innovative companies these days? (And I am totally serious, no snark/sarcasm intended)

Re: Expunging Google

#39

Post by ahoge »

RSS just isn't very popular. Firefox also removed that RSS icon from the address bar a few months ago. Do you think Mozilla did that because they "oppose the open web"?

No, of course they don't. They got rid of it because virtually no one used it.

Re: Expunging Google

#40

Post by dublinben »

logn wrote: post #14

I don't know about replacing Google with DDG. I'd prefer an engine that actually does its own indexing. Yandex is the only alternative that fits the bill in my mind: http://www.yandex.com Also, so happy to learn about ownCloud. As a developer, I'm a little disappointed to see AGPL licensing, but it's probably a smart choice and I use that license in some projects.

DDG actually pulls its results from Yandex and several other sources. Why limit yourself to a single, old-fashioned crawler, when you can use one of the most innovative meta-search engines?

http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216399

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