I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane • Hacker News Board

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#221

Post by vijayr » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:34 PM UTC

auctiontheory wrote: post #11

Mental illness is very common. This story has nothing to do with programming, except that technically strong people are given a lot of leeway for strange behavior, meaning that folks who need treatment often do not get it soon enough. The other point, and I think by now all of us should know this, is that we are each responsible for our health and our careers - we cannot look forward to a lifetime with a paternalisti…

Yes, ultimately each is responsible to himself/herself. But it doesn't help if someone higher up is taking advantage of such people, knowingly. It is nearly the same as taking advantage of people with low self esteem etc. The managers and higher ups needn't help, but at least they can stay away from making the situation worse.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#222

Post by jf22 » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:41 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

>watching horrible decisions made by those for their own benefit

Always consider you have imperfect information before coming to this verdict.

As developer sometimes we think we know whats going on but really don't.

As a new startup founder I find myself making tons of what I would previously classify as horrible decisions just because I have much more information about what is going on.

The decisions you make change once you have to consider cash, timelines, resource availability and potential sales.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#223

Post by michaelochurch » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:42 PM UTC

obviouslygreen wrote: post #179

michaelochurch wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experience and observation. Don't discount them. The first person to say the sky was blue was going out on a limb, too. What if everyone else saw an orange sky?

I'm not discounting them; I'm also not just nodding vacantly. But comparing your observations to widely-accepted facts like the color of the sky doesn't exactly scream rationality. Your assertion is that people with high IQ (which we're taking your word for, as well as the accuracy of the tests that we're assuming they took and shared the results with you) actually had the government after them in numerous enough occ…

actually had the government after them in numerous enough occasions to be statistically significant.

The government? No, that's not what I'm talking about when I talk about authority. I'm talking about managerial authority.

That's why we were talking past each other.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#224

Post by infinite8s » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:43 PM UTC

UK-AL wrote: post #193

crusso wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reinforces their incorrect belief that it was their skill and not chance that got them ahead If it doesn't take skill to have success in the market, then what's stopping you from being filthy rich? contribute consistent novel and useful ideas Wait, so if the market doesn't know how to properly judge ideas then who is the judge of what's "novel and useful"?

It does take skill, just not technical. Knowing the right people, flirting with tech reporters, being good at PR etc That is what gets you ahead.

Or how about you do a good job providing something people will pay money for. Unfortunately for tech people, what the market will pay money for isn't always what tech people want to build.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#225

Post by neilk » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:51 PM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #216

I've seen a lot of this over the past two years. I personally have witnessed five guys completely break down. Hell, we just had a manager who was under a lot of pressure last summer for a huge release. He had a complete breakdown and after four months off, he came back, took a demotion, but he's not the same guy anymore. He used to have a really outgoing personality and loved to talk about his band and music. Now he…

Five? Is there some connection - the same industry, or the same company?

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#226

Post by crusso » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:53 PM UTC

tgflynn wrote: post #175

crusso wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

human beings being treated like cogs in a machine You realize that Hacker News is focused on people starting businesses, right? Why are you here? hard worker - exactly the type of concept that the machine uses to exploit the naive. When you get your car worked on, do you expect that the mechanic should fix your car because you're paying him to or because you give him a hug and tell him that he's a useful human being?…

Why are you here ? This is absolutely typical of the problem with society. Judge me, exclude me, push me under a bridge. It doesn't matter what you do to me, the day will come when man will be judged by those he has judged.

I'm not pushing you anywhere. Be here if you like. I was just trying to understand it.

Your comments here are about as appropriate as if I'd go to the golf course and go on melodramatically about how awful a sport golf is. At some point, people would ask me, "Why are you here if you don't like golf?"

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#227

Post by sebcat » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:54 PM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #198

michaelochurch wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have fought the hydra bravely, and I commend you for that. May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. What do you suppose we do? For the long-term, here's the financial structure for the solution that I see: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/gervais-macle... . Essentially, I think VC-istan and MegaCorps are both dead ends when it comes to genuine technical excellence (whic…

Not to derail the thread, but nation-states are about as obsolete as operating systems.

This is so true. The country I live in has about the same number of inhabitants as NYC. Today I read an article in a business magazine local to this country saying something like "we [as a country] need to be able to compete with the world".

I mean, if we're supposed to compete with the bio mass of India or China, we're gonna have a bad time...

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#228

Post by brokenparser » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:54 PM UTC

NegativeK wrote: post #196

kevingadd wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you even have any anecdotes to support this? I have literally never encountered an example of an employer proactively managing an employee's stress level. To suggest that an employer can somehow put employees at 'an optimum amount of stress' suggests a lot more understanding of employees than I think is possible in most scenarios. I mean, yeah, we can spout platitudes all we want here. I agree that if you aspire t…

I've a friend who was told that he needed to take a vacation. Not in the "You're out of line" sense at all, but in the "We expect our employees to use their vacation time, and you've been working hard lately." He's also been told to cut back on the his hours, as his bosses didn't want him to sacrifice his personal life. Usually when you hear stories like this, it's because the employee is screwing up. In this case, i…

That's just what they told him, they really rather not pay the overtime.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#229

Post by michaelochurch » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:55 PM UTC

Surio wrote: post #209

michaelochurch wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have fought the hydra bravely, and I commend you for that. May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. What do you suppose we do? For the long-term, here's the financial structure for the solution that I see: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/gervais-macle... . Essentially, I think VC-istan and MegaCorps are both dead ends when it comes to genuine technical excellence (whic…

>> First, these companies are designed to become profitable, not to exit, so compensation is profit-sharing, not the joke equity offered by VC-istan That really, really resonated! Now for a counterpoint. When I read that remark, I recalled reading a recent interview of Groupon's COO and I quote this para: In 2007, he started Global Scholar to “help teachers give differentiated education to kids using technology. It w…

Now tell me, just how exactly are you even going to combat deeply entrenched mindsets like those, which also happen foster the usual confirmation and survivor bias dreams in most, if not all aspiring "wantapreneurs"?

I don't think selling a company is a bad thing. I think building a company with the idea in mind that one must sell (because one's backers will flip out if there isn't a sale) is bad.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#230

Post by leakybucket » Fri, Apr 19, 2013, 5:58 PM UTC

mac1175 wrote: post #77

Has anyone read The Bug ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Bug-Ellen-Ullman/dp/B000HWYPSE/ref... )? After reading it and experiencing all kinds of work environments, I can see how a person's sanity is tested.

Yes - I came in just to mention this. A great combination of a glance into the dotcom startup days + a feel of the classic gothic horror novel.