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I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

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Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#191

Post by bconway »

edw519 wrote: post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

Have you sought out a mental health professional? In my experience, most incidents like the one linked have little to do with the amount of work or the politics involved, and everything to do with an untreated emotional condition. A lot of your writing above rings true in the same fashion. Please be careful.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#192

Post by Zenst »

blablabla123 wrote: post #32
notimetorelax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let them suffer I agree to that. If management doesn't feel pain of its mistakes it does not have an incentive to improve.

>> let them suffer >I agree to that. If management doesn't feel pain of its mistakes it does not have an incentive to improve. This makes sense, but how do you do that without hurting yourself?

By planning your holidays. 1) Identify issue and alert manager that it needs addressing - say ew say clock changes for summertime as a poor obvious example. 2) manager ignores it with it will be fine mentality as nothing is on fire at the time 3) you book holiday when you expect shit to hit fan

Shit hits fan, you have issue documented as you alerted your manager and got response not an issue so you booked holiday and not there. With that you can not be blamed. Also ALL IT people worth there salt work above and beyond what there contract states - so if your contract is for DBA work, that is not sys admin work, that is not crawling under desks networking or desktop support - but you help out and do those things. So with that if it is outside your scope of your work contract then again you have the ability to ignore it as well. But the holiday approach is the best.

But there are 3 types of managers - those that can do your job, those that think they can do your job and those that will admit they have no idea. Then ontop of that there are those that can balance dealing with you and sheilding you from HR and the other crap and then there are those that just look after themselfs and smile to your face and say all sorts behind your back. As a rule a manager that can do your job is one you will get on with, ones that can not do your job are less likely to be good managers I have found, though have met some that are and there is no hard and fast rule or way to single the good from the bad sadly until your few months into a job.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#193

Post by UK-AL »

crusso wrote: post #157
tensor wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is like a school yard. Some people are popular and get all the praise. This reinforces their incorrect belief that it was their skill and not chance that got them ahead. If you want to prove you are really that good, contribute consistent novel and useful ideas to the world year after year. Prove that your ideas are good, with good unbiased evidence.

This reinforces their incorrect belief that it was their skill and not chance that got them ahead If it doesn't take skill to have success in the market, then what's stopping you from being filthy rich? contribute consistent novel and useful ideas Wait, so if the market doesn't know how to properly judge ideas then who is the judge of what's "novel and useful"?

It does take skill, just not technical.

Knowing the right people, flirting with tech reporters, being good at PR etc

That is what gets you ahead.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#194

Post by hjay »

edw519 wrote: post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

I too, struggle with a lot of this. I've seen people who just "sit back" when they are dissatisfied with the stuff that frustrates them at work.

Problem with me is, I'm unable to do that. I DO enjoy the work I do, I DO recognize the value that I am bringing to the company/others, and I AM frustrated at people who insist on a work-prevention structure, but I just cannot bring myself to push things off my own plate.

I see the people who stand around talking about useless miscellaneous happenings while everyone else is sitting/working. I see the people who (even in non-managerial roles), take the fruits of my effort, and wave it high in the air "oh look, I'm such a genius! Look at what I did!". I see those same people treat me like crap simply because I'm actually doing work and not talking about how I lost $500 playing online poker yesterday, or how his iPhone app made 5 bucks this month. I'm see those same people make racist or sexist remarks as a joke, 5 feet away from the subjects of their jokes. I'm not the "in" crowd, I'm just there to produce results and value so they can show it off, get promoted, and look back down on me and sneer.

I also see that one other programmer on the other corner, working just like me, and being treated no differently.

I'm a very patient and calm person, but seeing how much anger I have pent up, I can only extend a little of my remaining empathy and sense that, that one other programmer feels very much the same.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#195

Post by UK-AL »

iSnow wrote: post #34

>the extra effort and hours that you put into your job as a software developer does not usually amount to someone higher up thinking you should run the company. It has been my experience that good producers are more likely to be asked to continue to produce. In principle this is not even a bad thing. A great software engineer might not be that great as a manager or CEO. It would be better to have a technical career t…

Doesn't mean the software engineer would be bad at either. In my experience software engineers with leadership skills(meaning someone I would respect, and would work under), still get passed up.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#196

Post by NegativeK »

kevingadd wrote: post #98
cmdkeen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they won't. Plenty of good employers understand work life balance, they understand that output doesn't linearly increase with time, especially in development. Good employers push their employees in terms of not letting them coast, giving them meaningful work and challenging them to be their best. That is not the same as piling on work and ignoring stress levels. There is an optimum amount of stress at which humans…

Do you even have any anecdotes to support this? I have literally never encountered an example of an employer proactively managing an employee's stress level. To suggest that an employer can somehow put employees at 'an optimum amount of stress' suggests a lot more understanding of employees than I think is possible in most scenarios. I mean, yeah, we can spout platitudes all we want here. I agree that if you aspire t…

I've a friend who was told that he needed to take a vacation. Not in the "You're out of line" sense at all, but in the "We expect our employees to use their vacation time, and you've been working hard lately." He's also been told to cut back on the his hours, as his bosses didn't want him to sacrifice his personal life.

Usually when you hear stories like this, it's because the employee is screwing up. In this case, it's because the higher ups realize that proactively preventing employees from becoming overstressed is a good way to keep employees.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#197

Post by peterwwillis »

It has been my experience that good producers are more likely to be asked to continue to produce. If they moved you to a higher position and better pay then who would produce the software?

My experience has been the opposite, and more akin to the Peter Principle[1]. The best engineers become team leads, and then managers, and then...

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#198

Post by eli_gottlieb »

michaelochurch wrote: post #149
edw519 wrote: post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

You have fought the hydra bravely, and I commend you for that. May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. What do you suppose we do? For the long-term, here's the financial structure for the solution that I see: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/gervais-macle... . Essentially, I think VC-istan and MegaCorps are both dead ends when it comes to genuine technical excellence (whic…

Not to derail the thread, but nation-states are about as obsolete as operating systems.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#199

Post by saintx »

edw519 wrote: post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

I definitely sympathize. It feels that the world is accelerating toward the end of some century-long slide from value creation to value capture, where fortunes aren't so much built as they are acquired or harvested from the people who build them.
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