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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

531–539 of 539 posts

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#531
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet leaving it illegal is the problem we face on both counts. I dont see why youre bothering to state this nonsense in the form of an argument against doing the right thing. It would have been easier to do nothing in the first place yet here we bloody well are.

I would support you if you want to go after the people that made this happen, that said if you want to clean up the mess as it currently is, then you'll have to work out how to get it done. Complaining about how it shouldn't have happened in the first place doesn't translate into action now to remedy the situation.

I wasn't complaining, I was simply replying in kind. Good job on catching that.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#532
post #523
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Could_Hitler_be_described_as_right...

Sorry, random rambling on the internet doesn't count. The nsdap had a left, socialist wing. Most of the members of that wing were executed, which is a good indicatior on how much Hitler himself agreed with them. He himself didn't had many political views one could describe as left, that there are similarities in the methods is mainly a coincidence. Your linked article is plainly wrong in that regard, the nationalizat…

You could've just said, "Hitler was not left, despite being in a nationalist socialist party he focused mainly on national goals and left the capitalists for what they were." My german is not so good, so I read the wikipedia article on the history of the socialist part of the nsdap and it seems you are right, there was not much of a leftist in him.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private money from where? Which account does that get drawn on? Are you saying that the president should have authority to order spending of non-government money?

He started a war on libya without congress approval, right?

No. That was not a war.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#535
post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the third time this is posted to you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Terrorism_Acts

For the last time in the 80s it did not work like you are implying. During the "War on Terror" an old man and anti-Nazi RAF veteran was arrested under "anti-terror" laws for holding an anti-Blair placard at a demonstration. During the IRA years, well ... Find me an example of "security" that egregious during the period I mentioned, I double dog dare you. Stuff was blowing up all the time but the people simply did not…

>>It will just make you look stupider and more of a liar.

My claim was:

The idea with terrorism against democracies is to scare the living daylight out of voters in a country. The politicians in those democracies want to win the next election do everything to stop the terror.

Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book [...]

You argue that the Brits of the 1980s weren't that scared, Blitz-style. That might be true (your personal experience isn't that big support) -- but it is not relevant for my point, which is about politicians' reactions to scared civilians.

But you know that, troll.

For British response: I posted a link to the law above. Google site:hrw.org yourself, for more -- it was definitely harsher than pure criminality would need.

Congrats troll, you got another answer. Now you can lie more about what I wrote, to see if you get another...

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#536
post #60

So much for the Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The declaration of independence is a document with zero legal force. It's a bunch of nice sounding words to justify our attempt to separate from the British, nothing more.

> It's a bunch of nice sounding words

I suspect the founding fathers put a lot of thought into those nice sounding words in the hope they would define a nation.

Those nice sounding words where powerful enough to start a civil war over the topic of slavery and basic human rights.

However, in a way I think you are right. Those words may well have lost there meaning and been devalued by big business and big money :(

Maybe today they are indeed just words, but the end result will be the USA has lost a lot more than just a bunch of words :(

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#537
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the last time in the 80s it did not work like you are implying. During the "War on Terror" an old man and anti-Nazi RAF veteran was arrested under "anti-terror" laws for holding an anti-Blair placard at a demonstration. During the IRA years, well ... Find me an example of "security" that egregious during the period I mentioned, I double dog dare you. Stuff was blowing up all the time but the people simply did not…

>>It will just make you look stupider and more of a liar. My claim was: The idea with terrorism against democracies is to scare the living daylight out of voters in a country. The politicians in those democracies want to win the next election do everything to stop the terror. Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book [...] You argue that the Brits of the 1980s…

I don't need to lie about what you wrote, you are doing that yourself.

Firstly, you come out with this stuff whenever an even tangentially related topic comes up on HN. So you are not making an observation about political science, you are engaging in advocacy. You are saying "Hooray for throwing out the rule book! That keeps us safe and stops the towelhead terrorists!". Like you did here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4474143

Secondly, you are engaging in the no true scotsman fallacy whenever I give a counterexample. Breivik wasn't true terrorism because he was just one guy. Well that's irrelevant. The size and scale of any terrorist attack ever made up to now has been insignificant next to the damage to civil liberties from "security" or even to the death toll from road accidents. The difference is whether the population get hysterical, as you are advocating, or maintain their sense of proportion, as I am advocating. Marinus Van Der Lubbe was also just one guy, but we got Hitler and the Nazis being given emergency powers as a result of the Reichstag fire, because the Germans in the 30s ran around screaming about how the scary, scary legions of communist barbarians (well funded by their Russian backers) were a serious threat to all of civilization, just like you keep screaming about how the scary, scary legions of islamist barbarians (well funded by their oil-sheikh backers) are a serious threat to all of civilization.

Well we don't have to treat this crap as natural. Any sane society, like the Norwegians today and unlike the Germans in the 30s, can just refuse to be scared, and put checks and balances in place to curb the politicians, like the European courts curbed the British government.

Politicians taking away liberties under the excuse of "security" is the oldest fraud in the book, as anyone can see from Julius Caesar's comments on Sulla. Nobody who grew up in a country with functioning schools and books has any excuse for not knowing better.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#538
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It will just make you look stupider and more of a liar. My claim was: The idea with terrorism against democracies is to scare the living daylight out of voters in a country. The politicians in those democracies want to win the next election do everything to stop the terror. Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book [...] You argue that the Brits of the 1980s…

I don't need to lie about what you wrote, you are doing that yourself. Firstly, you come out with this stuff whenever an even tangentially related topic comes up on HN. So you are not making an observation about political science, you are engaging in advocacy . You are saying "Hooray for throwing out the rule book! That keeps us safe and stops the towelhead terrorists!". Like you did here: https://news.ycombinator.co…

Wow, you are totally shameless in lying about what I write!

>>You are saying "Hooray for throwing out the rule book! That keeps us safe and stops the towelhead terrorists!".

>>The difference is whether the population get hysterical, as you are advocating

I have written that terrorism against democracies is generally to influence/scare the population. See quote in what you comment on, troll.

You are fully aware that I have never discussed the motivation for (/morale of) that reaction, just noted that it is the usual outcome.

(I only read a few seconds until I saw a couple of quotes to show that you lie, troll.)

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#539

I know for a fact that much of these claims are completely wrong and, being told by a detainee, are completely biased. Detainee's that refuse meals are required to receive their nutrients in liquid form. They have the option to drink this themselves. When they refuse, they are put in the feeding chair which restrains their arms, legs, and waist. It does not restrain a detainees head whatsoever. When a detainee refuse…

Nobody wants these people. 15 American lawyers went to Yemen to expose the lie that Yemen didn't want these people back. No one from the Yemeni govt would meet with them. We haven't gotten rid of them because we don't know anyone who is willing to accept them. Go ahead and read it in the Yemeni Observer. http://www.yobserver.com/front-page/10012301.html

This is correct.
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