Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then you have a naive view of the world around you. Many things suck in other countries that you just don't notice in The Netherlands. Also, viewing your country as great has nothing to do with rightwing ideology. I do not for a second think that past immigration laws have done anything to degrade The Netherlands as a great country. Also, immigration laws (PVV's main issue) have nothing to do with rightwing ideology,…
Hitler was not left.
Gitmo Is Killing Me
521–530 of 539 posts
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#522Earlier quoted context omitted.
That was one lone crazy person. Are there other members of Breivik's gang out there? Totally different from an organisation of many people (possibly growing).
By the way, I grew up in London in the 80s. The IRA were bombing Britain all the time. There are still no trash cans in the London subway system today; they were taken out because the IRA might leave bombs in them. The IRA even hit Downing Street and one of Thathcer's political conferences. There might have been stepped up security in Northern Ireland itself, but security in London during that period was far less tha…
This is the third time this is posted to you...
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#523Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hitler was not left.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Could_Hitler_be_described_as_right...
Sorry, random rambling on the internet doesn't count.
The nsdap had a left, socialist wing. Most of the members of that wing were executed, which is a good indicatior on how much Hitler himself agreed with them. He himself didn't had many political views one could describe as left, that there are similarities in the methods is mainly a coincidence. Your linked article is plainly wrong in that regard, the nationalization of industries for example didn't really happen after the Kapital agreed to cooperate (and ideologically, nationalization of industries in a facist regime is something else entirely than in a communist one).
For a good article about the subject, read http://www.h-ref.de/organisationen/nsdap/nazis-sozialisten.p.... Anyway, I don't think we should discuss this any further here, it is OT.
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#524Earlier quoted context omitted.
"For anyone who actually understands politics, the failure to close Gitmo was not Obama's fault." I disagree. For anyone that understands politics understands that things can get done by applying a significant political push. I think Obama symbolically tried, then threw his hands up in the air in defeat when he got some resistance from Congress. I assume this is because the political chips he would lose by pushing ha…
He made a huge deal about trying to get the detainees legal trials in New York. It was a big political story for a number of weeks. What would have had him do, specifically? He tried, it clearly wasn't happening. Maybe he should try again, but I can tell you the same exact thing would happen again. That would be your symbolic gesture.
It's simple really. It cost the GOP no bad Karma to let Cheney and Bush open the thing. The President called it a "military camp" so legally it was the same as keeping these bad guys in a tent in Iraq.
For Obama to MOVE THEM would have required some kind of law to put them in Federal courts, or even standard Military courts. Also, congress threatened to EXPLICITLY tell the President no funds were available.
... Kind of like how the 1980 congress told Reagan there would be no funds available to trade for hostages. In 1980 Reagan just went ahead and BROKE THE LAW something Obama has too much respect to do. The issue was divisive enough That Obama couldn't count in his own slim majority to vote on his side. Because Obama doesn't RULE the Democrats like Cheney did.
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#525Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've lobbied. A fair amount for an amateur. We had some small victories, but mostly lost ground. Obama is not an amateur.
I've been chewing on what you said. Absolutely. I make no defense of Obama, or any other elected. I just want to understand the game better, to play it better. So I'm more curious what it'd take to close Gitmo. Not my issue, so I haven't looked. But key policy makers (blocking no votes) would have to be identified and moved. And that would take sustained years long local action, eg me and 100 of my friends camping in…
And that would take sustained years long local action, eg me and 100 of my friends camping in my Senator's or Representative's office. Ditto probably 40 other local groups. Hard to pull off.
Yeah, Obama doesn't have to do any of this. Maybe the "sustained years" part for some issues, but that's the limits of commonality between your tools and Obama's.
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#526Earlier quoted context omitted.
This would be the same McCain who, just in December, shot down the idea that Gitmo prisoners could be transferred to the United States, right? http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/84379.html
Sure. As I think I made clear, I would have little confidence in McCain's willingness to reliably do the right thing in any given situation. (Taking it as read for the moment that agreeing to bring Guantanamo detainees to the US would be the right thing at this point.) But with the combination of stronger external pressure, (maybe) more cooperative Congressional Republicans, and whatever McCain might have felt like d…
[deleted]
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just so I get your position right: 1. Al Qaeda can be described as 19 brown people -- not thousands of members (and hundreds of millions in finances) with repeated attempts at mass murder through terrorism. 2. If the Western world wasn't racist -- Breivik should have gotten as much attention as al Q, despite his whole gang (he, himself) being in jail. 3. This attention of Breivik is merited because: Two groups of cra…
And no, Al Qaeda is not some James-Bond baddy organization with hundreds of millions in finances, you pulled that out of your ass. Al Qaeda is a common name used by lots of different little local terrorist groups to make themselves seem menacing. eg if the Al Shabab boys in Somalia want to make themselves seem badass, they call themselves "Al Qaeda in Somalia" But facts don't matter to you because you are a complete…
I skimmed enough to see that you didn't argue against my description of your position.
So I take it the description was accurate.
I note that you lie about what I wrote, which was: All (functioning) democracies tend to ignore human rights and laws when its citizens are threatened with terrorism.
I removed the rest and references. You phantasize something without me having to help anyway...
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#528Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just so I get your position right: 1. Al Qaeda can be described as 19 brown people -- not thousands of members (and hundreds of millions in finances) with repeated attempts at mass murder through terrorism. 2. If the Western world wasn't racist -- Breivik should have gotten as much attention as al Q, despite his whole gang (he, himself) being in jail. 3. This attention of Breivik is merited because: Two groups of cra…
No you idiot. I was replying to rmc when he said Breivik was a lone nut job. I gave another example of McVeigh, who was definitely not a lone nut job, and pointed out that the same rule applies. And so the McVeigh example invalidates rmc's point by itself. Are you really that stupid that you keep missing the point?
You suggested that others should do as Norway did, re Breivik.
So, as usual, it was pointed out to you that Norway was a very different situation since Breivik was in jail, there is no big organisation that promise more terror.
Then you went troll and described 9/11 as "19 brown people" and started talking about unrelated crazies on another continent of Breivik -- decades earlier.
Edit: That you lie about what you wrote yourself means that you're an unusually sad troll and not a mental case. That makes me happy, believe it or not. Please get a life instead. If you go to a gym/psychologist it should be ok in the end.
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#529Another example of the hypocrisy of our goverment which claims to champion ideals like freedom and equality before the law. As long as there are innocent people like this suffering grave injustices in gitmo, as long as drones are killing innocent Pakistani villagers, as long as the U.S. brazenly continues to financially and militarily support Israel, the president and every member of congress have blood on their hand…
The leadership of this country is made up of citizens of this country. I think John Q. average tax payer would do the same thing if he were in office. Our leadership is a representation of us. The government is made up of US Citizens. We can't just blame the government for it's bad decisions, because in truth it is our decisions. If we want to change the government, we must first change ourselves. How kind are we to…
Listen, people in office have a much greater responsibility than you or me to make the right choices because their decisions affect all of us and that's also why it's incumbent upon us to make these crooks accountable for their actions and to criticize them because, in the words of Howard Zinn "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
It's a shame that the president of our country is out throwing lavish birthday parties for himself inviting useless celebrities and paying a guy $100,000 to play the music. Are you freakin kidding me???? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/obamas-birthday-bas...
Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
By the way, I grew up in London in the 80s. The IRA were bombing Britain all the time. There are still no trash cans in the London subway system today; they were taken out because the IRA might leave bombs in them. The IRA even hit Downing Street and one of Thathcer's political conferences. There might have been stepped up security in Northern Ireland itself, but security in London during that period was far less tha…
This is the third time this is posted to you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Terrorism_Acts
For the last time in the 80s it did not work like you are implying.
During the "War on Terror" an old man and anti-Nazi RAF veteran was arrested under "anti-terror" laws for holding an anti-Blair placard at a demonstration. During the IRA years, well ... Find me an example of "security" that egregious during the period I mentioned, I double dog dare you.
Stuff was blowing up all the time but the people simply did not get all paranoid. Business as usual.
By the way, your wiki link refers to laws that were put in place in the 70s. If I recall correctly, Britain tried full scale internment in the 70s and got bitch slapped in court by Ireland, and then stopped. That may be the reason Britain was acting in a saner way in the 80s, but I wasn't debating the history of it.
I was simply saying that 80s Britain was an existence proof of a society not responding to terrorism by turning into a police state. The IRA terrorism hadn't stopped in the 70s, by the way - it continued into the 90s making it far longer-lasting than Afghanistan.
And finally, the topic was Guantanamo Bay, where people have been held without trial for more than a decade. You are trying to compare that to British emergency powers that held people for one week?
You can post that wikipedia page a fifth and sixth time, it still won't change anything. It will just make you look stupider and more of a liar.