Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 349 posts

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#131

Post by larrys »

pc86 wrote: post #121
lreeves wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your anecdote doesn't really seem feasible for most people. Do you think it's reasonable that someone who has been out of work for 6 months would take on the risk and cost of flying to a tradeshow?

Come on, now. He's not saying "just fly to a trade show and you'll get job offers," he's saying that you need to be proactive. Go into a business unsolicited and ask if they're hiring (obviously you should know what they do and know that you're a fit). Are you a web developer? I live in a rural area and there are a half dozen shops within a 30 minute drive. Show up during business hours, ask for the GM or owner and t…

Exactly.

By the way this is one of the things I tell people about dating as well.

You have more chance going to a bar to find a date (where some could be put off by your approach - I mean who cares you only need one person!) then you have sitting at your house expecting someone will knock on your door or come falling through the roof!

Also as is true with any situation where you are only looking for one taker (dating, jobs) as opposed to multiple takers (making sales every day of the same product (encyclopedias?)) you can afford to put much more effort in because it's not something you are going to have to repeat every day. So if it takes 4 weeks of cold calling and you get a job it's a solution to a problem.

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#132

Post by enraged_camel »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #129
enraged_camel wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>There is another side of this that the article doesn't touch on: home ownership. Oh boy. There's so much I can say about this topic, and none of it is positive. Basically, the way our culture mindlessly promotes home ownership is insane. Absolutely insane! Every time I hear people complaining about "throwing away money" by renting, and how they would rather put that money into a house, I want to hold them by the sh…

A house is a very useful durable good. Like automobiles and refrigerators.

It's funny you mention automobiles, because nobody buys automobiles as a means of investment (since they lose a ton of value quickly).

As a useful durable good, sure houses have value, but renting accomplishes the same purpose (of giving you a place to live).

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#133

Post by rdouble »

enraged_camel wrote: post #127
cletus wrote: post #84

This doesn't surprise me at all. One thing I've come to learn in life is the importance of social proof. Social proof takes many form. It's why MIT and Stanford CS grads have tech companies come to their campuses and throw money at them (these institutions don't have a monopoly on good engineers). It's why if you have Google/Facebook/Twitter on your CV you are pretty much guaranteed a job. It's why academic staff who…

>>There is another side of this that the article doesn't touch on: home ownership. Oh boy. There's so much I can say about this topic, and none of it is positive. Basically, the way our culture mindlessly promotes home ownership is insane. Absolutely insane! Every time I hear people complaining about "throwing away money" by renting, and how they would rather put that money into a house, I want to hold them by the sh…

Compounding this problem are the facts that in many, and I would argue, most, US cities, renting is expensive, the there is a social stigma against renters, and the rental properties available are very undesirable.

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#134

Post by incision »

About 13 years ago, I was unemployed for about four months.

I've had a few people positively grill me about that blank despite the length of time that has passed and evidence that I didn't spend the time idle (Obtained a certification, did freelance work and eventually pivoted my career).

In each case, it was an older person who upon my asking explained that they saw any extended period of unemployment as blatant laziness.

I ended up getting those jobs, but came to learn a bit about how some people can come to think of life as so straightforward and easy.

In each case the people judging me hadn't had to look for work for at least 20 years. In one, the person judging was the son of a prior VP who was widely despised by his peers for having made a nepotistic ascent through the ranks. In another I ended up seated at a desk next to the son of the judging CTO.

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#135

Post by larrys »

cletus wrote: post #84

This doesn't surprise me at all. One thing I've come to learn in life is the importance of social proof. Social proof takes many form. It's why MIT and Stanford CS grads have tech companies come to their campuses and throw money at them (these institutions don't have a monopoly on good engineers). It's why if you have Google/Facebook/Twitter on your CV you are pretty much guaranteed a job. It's why academic staff who…

"I would absolutely without a second's doubt invent fictitious employment and get a friend to back up any reference check "

I've also heard people who will simply pick a company that went out of business where references or verification aren't even possible.

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#136

Post by larrys »

mgkimsal wrote: post #98
sukuriant wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an interesting amount of money you can make as a person living in the United States where you're not making enough money to both survive and save on your own; and, you're making too much money for the government to go out of its way to help you. I've had friends in those situations over the course of my life. I believe I've even heard of situations where people would turn down raises or even turn down jobs be…

Yeah, we talk about "means testing" social security payments in this country, but little talk of "means testing" welfare recipients. I worked with people 20 years ago (at a burger king) who would turn down shifts because that extra $15 for a 5 hour shift would put them over a limit and they'd lose all their food stamp money. We're very keen on progressive taxation, but apparently progressive welfare is too far out of…

Would like to point out that many years ago with respect to collecting unemployment that it was clear to me (after speaking to the former employees) that the ss office in the state that we were in was purposely coaching employees on how to stay on unemployment as a way of regulating the labor supply which could only absorb so many people otherwise wages would be depressed. My point is simply that there could be multiple masters being served here by these policies. Not saying that is why it is happening in your example but on the surface some things that don't make sense sometimes fulfill another purpose.

Another example might be looking the other way while employees cheat on expense reports. They get the money and everyone avoids additional payroll taxes.

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#137

Post by marknutter »

sukuriant wrote: post #67
marknutter wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you not saving money is nobody's fault but your own. And if you can't pay your bills, you can either take advantage of any of the many safety nets provided by the government, or you can use any of the natural safety nets that are available to everybody but the most antisocial people; friends and family. Jobs are not a right, they are a privilege.

There's an interesting amount of money you can make as a person living in the United States where you're not making enough money to both survive and save on your own; and, you're making too much money for the government to go out of its way to help you. I've had friends in those situations over the course of my life. I believe I've even heard of situations where people would turn down raises or even turn down jobs be…

How on earth then are so many illegal immigrants making enough money to both survive and also send money back to their families in their native countries?

Also, anecdotally, and since you brought it up, I was in a situation where I lived for many years at or below the poverty line, but I made due by living in inexpensive apartments I split with other people in the same situation. I think most young adults who aren't given a trust fund or financial help from their parents go through a period like this in their lives, usually while developing more marketable skills or working their way up a company's hierarchy.

The point is, you learn to make do, and you learn to survive, just like everyone else on this planet does. And if you want to increase your standard of living beyond sharing a dingy apartment with other people then you make yourself more valuable to employers somehow or accept your lot in life.

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#139

Post by maeon3 »

VLM wrote: post #79
enraged_camel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The other good answer is "I worked on X", where X could have been pretty much anything: a failed business, an open source project, volunteer work, or just making stuff to sell on Etsy. I didn't even care if it was remotely related to the position. I just wanted to see some initiative and passion. There's nothing wrong with a forced sabbatical as long as you do something with it. Ideally, yes. In reality, it's easie…

"When you're unemployed, finding work should become your full-time job." This assumes there's enough of a job market "out there" that after more than 6 months you can still burn 40 hours per week on it. "This is not possible if you're dicking around with ... volunteer work." This doesn't even make sense. Most volunteer work doesn't require much money. You may be confusing setting up a charity or donating to a charity…

I did volunteer work at a soup kitchen and through the connections I made there I worked with someone who kicked my butt and fixed my resume. If that hadn't happened i wouldn't be making the salary I am now.

The ancient wisdom: give and it will be given you is mysteriously powerful. Humans want to help those who help others, it's in our genetics.

Re: The Terrifying Reality of Long-Term Unemployment

#140

Post by jonathanwallace »

Apocryphon wrote: post #126
jonathanwallace wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like there is a market opportunity for job coaches. Reasonable-reason-for-extended-absence-from-the-job-market as a service, anyone?

There's also a market opportunity for "career incubators" that train people relevant skills, like that one organization in S.F. that was training Rails developers from the ground up.

Any particular reason you say that other than the existence of the aforementioned "career incubators?"
Post reply on HN